My anger is enormous when I read through all the hideous posturing, ugliness, and fear/pride hanging out behind the obvious aggressiveness and anger of both Ray and Kelley, who should both be ashamed and apologetic to us all for wounding a group founded in LOVE and dedicated to our highest purposes. Amen.
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“Do not feel lonely [wounded] the entire universe is inside of you” - Rumi
The only person who allows you to have an emotion is you. How can a follower of Rumi not grasp this basic Rumi proverb?
I will continue to tweak the nose of Green pretending to be Teal as long as it is thrust toward me.
I am not ashamed and never will be. Shame is unhealthy Orange. Thats a tell of a level you have some work to do my friend, Rumi. Whenever I catch a glimpse of shame I have tools to root it out.
Perhaps find more tools for “cleaning up” is my message. Again, a lacking in Integral Practice I see very clearly.
It is very easy to not read any word I say. In this digital age with millions of offers of engagement, where to focus that engagement is solely the readers responsibility
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Well, I would say the only reason to play is to learn this. So I dont mind running this simulation / game for multiple people.
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I myself see some of discussions in here that I find to be pointless. I just dont engage them. I giggle, shrug my shoulders and move on.
What makes the topic of anger and outrage different for me is I see it as an opportunity to provoke substatial “Cleaning Up”. Its like opening someones locked hoarding closet lol.
TBCH I predominantly post here when Im procrastinating unpleasant tasks. Normally with my morning coffee before I dig into solid Orange work for the next 8 hours. Orange generally pays well, lol
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New to Ken Wilbur, very new to this IP concept new to this forum……. This email banter was, unfortunately, my introduction to the forum. Love this level of discussing ideas, saddened that even here, blinders rule the roost. Shoot. I just cannot find “my people” who profess to seek peace, yet remain unaware of the sin inside of themselves.
One item caught my attention. What appears to be a sincere question from one of you to an unbiased third party. Hi. I am unbiased.
I believe the answer to “where in my first response was I a bully” is this. (Before you respond, don’t. This is for your inner work: “ I hear a lot of cult like language in reference to Ken. People with a culty view of Ken”
You unintentionally (benefit of the doubt!) triggered a response, using the words “cult language” and “culty”.
If we are to work together to solve world peace, we better figure out how to desire peace above being right rather than fall further into the abuse of duality thinking. Sorry if this unintentionally (is unintentional, please don’t be triggered) triggers someone……. Give me grace, I am new.
Extend that grace to others and try to work hard to couch your messages to each other in a way that can be accepted, not triggering.
Cool……. I look forward to reading further about the topic, Ken and the ensuing discussions, hopefully free of emotional responses.
We’ll see. Love and peace.
Larry
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Kelly,
I can’t help but thinking of Socrates in the Apology. At one point he basically says, “when my soul ascends to the Good, I will find better people to converse with.” In other words, thank goodness I am leaving here for a better place because I am tired of you fools. This looks like an old post so maybe your feelings have changed but my hunch is what you are experiencing is exactly right for someone that is more refined and integrated–perhaps one or two integrations over from the bell shaped curve.
I have felt from time to time that it is time for me to die, there is nothing more to do or experience. Change is the only constant and I get tired. There is no fear in my thoughts and feelings about death, it is just a fact. On the other hand, as you pointed out in your own words, I find at least one thing a day that renews my soul and keeps me vibrant and attuned to my surroundings. When I was young, I vowed that I wasn’t going to be a grouchy old man because as a youth they seemed ugly to me. I can understand how that can happen now, but I still keep that vow. For me, the one thing that keeps me going is an instable curiosity about the soul. The more I learn, the less I know. Anyway, again, I guess this is a safe place to talk about personal experiences rather than what I mostly see which is theoretical discussions. Best wishes, Scott
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WOW, I don’t know either of you guys but I think Ken Wilber can take care of himself. At this point, I don’t think he needs people to defend hm and may even be bone weary of debate and criticism. One thing I have to say is that when I read all the entries both you guys made, I did have a good laugh. I know this is serious for both of you but didn’t someone say that everyone can’t be wrong 100% and that everyone holds a bit of the truth (albeit with the Animal Farm caveat “all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others”). Sorry Kelly, I don’t know how to put raybennett’s address on this comment as well.
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KSV, I couldn’t agree with you more. At one time I did a deep dive on the work of the Leaky family, especially Richard, Stephen Jay Gould and other popularizers. I read The Origin of Species which, as you know, was written in a user friendly way. It sparked about three years of studying our ascent and the argument between complexity and depth versus random change. I definitely came down on the side of evolution having a telos, a final cause (but not necessarily through homo sapiens.) This was reinforced when I had a “kundalini bomb” explode within me over twenty years ago. Whatever the white light is in my body is conclusively intelligent, caring, and healing. I don’t take my energy to be a basic component of evolution but it is suprarational and is a sign-post to even greater bliss and awe.
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I read your comments. Ill read them again next week to see what i might have missed on a first reading.
I guess where i am at now is Ken wrote some books with some good ideas. Kind of like a theoretical “scaffolding”. Ive read some of those and have subsumed them.
Over the past few years ive posted in here mainly when procrastinating other tasks. Every so often some person or another doesnt like my opinions even to the point they get angry. When engaging these people, what i have practiced was looking at the roots of my own emotions when interacing with these people.
This isnt the only place i do this. I tend to pull the curtain quite often that everyone else prefers to keep shut. There are all kinds of bullying and disfunctional behavior people attempt when trying to keep things hidden from themselves.
All i do is state my opinion and observe my own emotional reactions to people when they become strongly emotional about my opinions.
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I hear you. As a newcomer I have definitely noticed a tendency to use technical jargon rather speaking from the heart and mind in a spontaneous manner. It’s as if you don’t contribute some kind of polished presentation to the group, you will not have responses. That’s OK. Like you, I see all of this as a heuristic device that once learned needs to be forgotten when I am in the world. I don’t won’t to evaluate people based on their psychological color scheme because that leads to labeling which leads to objectifying thoughts and feelings. AQAl is a great tool but it too has to become second nature and not used as a day to day conscious framing of people and places. That’s why I won’t say I am turquoise or green or orange or amber because on some days I can dip in and out of all of these modulates. For me, this is a fluid process. Thanks for engaging Ray.
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Not quite. Those at Integral World https://www.integralworld.net/ DON’T HATE Ken. They just passionately disagree with many aspects of Ken’s Integral theory. Then you have David Long.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwzVM2uIx7U&t=3s&ab_channel=IAM-DavidLong
Don’t let his appearance fool you. What he has to say about Ken Wilber not living up to his own standards regarding Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris simply cannot be denied. I lost my faith in Wilber years ago. Mainly because, for all that he knows about higher stages of conciousness and all the rest, he spends his time in seclusion all the while the world continues down a shit hole. None of his theories have made their way into our universities and much less into politics. Then you have the faithful. Those who see Wilber as the measure of all things Integral hence worship him. They study his theories like the gospel truth. While such endeavors has some merit, it’s become an end in itself, i.e. spiritual bypassing. I also wonder if Wilber has truly achieved non-dual awareness like Gangagi, Adyashanti, and Eckhart Tolle. For years, I’ve listened to these spiritual teachers, respectively, and you can tell they speak and use words in ways that genuinely reflect their spiritual awakening. I just don’t see it with Wilber. He comes across far more as a master theorist than an enlightened master that I thought he was- or it may be I’m misreading Wilber. At any rate, I actually feel a sense of mourning about Wilber and Integral Theory. Mainly because it’s so complicated, I found out about it too late in life, and the illusions I had of Wilber as being “all that” gradually died because his theories -as transformational as they may be- were not making their presence felt in this sick world we live in. I’m just sick and tired hearing and talking about Integral as everyone is doing here in this Integral Community site but nothing changes for the better. Nothing will in my lifetime. It’s rather depressing to say that but I’d rather know the truth than follow the herd mentality of the mases that life “life is good” when it’s not always so.
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