"Conscious Co-Operative Capitalism"

Town Square
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@excecutive Now we’re talking!

How do we adopt and implement Conscious Co-operative Capitalism?

  • Maybe there is already a bunch of it going on that we can replicate in the Integral community (or hijack, merge with, become part of, include ourselves in).

Step 1 – Consciously accept and commit to the idea of supporting one-another locally.

  • Isn’t this “anti-globalism” and perhaps devolution to more family, tribal, city that is somewhat in conflict with “globalism”?

Step 2 – We are all consumers and the foundation of success begins with us as individual consumers. As a consumer commit your time, resources and money to participate consciously in supporting individual local businesses that consciously co-operate by being members of the local collective.

  • Perfect example of hard core capitalism in play - “vote with your $'s” and you will change the world.

Step 3 – Success still comes through our competitive efforts in the marketplace. However the results of winning and losing have consciously changed. It’s the effort and input we give toward helping others that matters now.

  • Let’s look at Starbucks as an example. Starbucks’ profit margins are at usury levels. This enables lots of cool programs (free tuition, lots of advertising,…). With Starbucks setting the pricing levels where they are, independent or family owned and operated coffee shops can easily sustain themselves.

One thing we all need to look at is if we day in day out vote for globalization (Amazon, Costco, et al) or do we vote for individual, family, local community empowerment.

On a side note - Whole Foods CEO Mackey practiced highly predatory behavior leading up to their Wild Oats acquisition. As with Starbucks, they enjoy “usury” profit margin levels enabling mega-advertising budgets which enables shaping of public perception. The vast majority of Americans simply cannot afford to shop for groceries at Whole Foods (now owned by Amazon).

I do love the devolution if you will from globalization back to local, community, city, state, national economic focus. We can cast it as integral, but MANY communities do this as standard operating procedure. We buy locally whenever we can - small local grocery chains (one Christian, one Muslim), gas in the neighborhood, local auto mechanic, Jim’s hardware store, insurance from a fellow church goer, donate locally, buy art locally or from global communities we want to support, on and on… Even when we have to pay a more. This is actually standard operating procedure for most, if not all, religious communities.

National/global programs like say UBI or $15/hour minimum wage have a oversized negative impact on the RSB and hence negatively impact Conscious Co-Operative Capitalism.

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“National/global programs … oversized negative impact on the RSB and hence negatively impact Conscious Co-Operative Capitalism.” Agreed :slight_smile:

The ideas were about reverse engineering the current system. It sucks money to the top in pure competitive capitalism. We’re suggesting uniting communities into local self-supporting cooperative business endeavors. Bring some of that money back-home to the community.

More importantly to uniting locally with real people again. This has been significantly diminished in our society since the Internet isolation age, now aggravated by Covid Shut-downs. Rediscover our human connections in person.

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Sounds to me like you want a return to Mayberry RFD :slight_smile:. Would it be considered a downside, if we trade with our neighborhood, church, or village community? Some could argue that would be discriminatory. What if these communities, towns, cities aren’t diverse enough as defined by the Woke police that we’ve just created in the other thread?
Maybe it’s a neighborhood of Hindus with no Muslims (that’s probably acceptable), a Catholic Parish with no Atheists (probably not acceptable), a Muslim community with zero LGBTQ and women can’t drive (ugh, messy, ugh), or perhaps Sheriff Andy turns out to be nepotistic and corrupt but has enough support to keep getting reelected? Gets messy…

Are we defining a wonderful Traditional community with some slight tweaks here and there? :slight_smile:

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I imagine this will be welcomed by those embracing this higher level of conscious cooperation. Through cooperation working for the good of all who consciously cooperate to attain greater support and more power. Growing in reconnection and repurposing to reinvigorate and reinvest in influencing and collaborating working together toward a collective of cooperation. If you want to label this Mayberry, or Socialism or The Borg Hive or Lunacy … or anything else that fits in your matrix I am okay with that too. ~ Peace :slight_smile:

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My own model for the way I am living now and building my “second half” of life I think I can take Maslow’s Hierarchy and look at “self esteem” and the needs below self esteem.
Another book that helped form this idea is “A New Earth” by Ekharte Tolle.
What does one need for self esteem? I would argue actually nothing. No products - nothing a capitalist economy can provide. Just sit there until you figure it out. :joy:
On the contrary modern capitalism actively devotes to an overwhelming percentage of its resources on marketing campaigns and advertising to try and destroy people’s self esteem so that they will then purchase a product to get a temporary relieve from the feeling of lacking the product.
Our entire economy and the society that worships capitalism as a sacred cow can only exist in its current form if people cannot achieve Maslow’s 4th level without purchasing a product.
The hilarious sad truth is that very, very, very few people can envision achieving self esteem without purchasing it. Even self help products have to be purchased (but fail to deliver)
Our communities look down on individuals if we don’t have specific products. House, vehicle, name brand university degree, etc. It even goes down to the level of finding a mate, sex and reproduction because a potential mate might demand certain products that the community deem are necessary for self esteem.

One different path is when a person realizes that real self esteem cannot be found anywhere except within and this is nurtured to a point where the person absolutely does not need any external input for self esteem. From there they find individuals, communities and mates who share that knowledge.
When these individuals, families and communities gather, they don’t need products beyond the bare minimum. Some finances are necessary, but only to a minimum level.
As more of these people gather in a geographic area, they make it unpleasant for people to live there who are set in the first mindset. Property values might not grow or may even drop, for example. The neighborhood might look “trashy” to investors because the residents don’t share the priority of having a big inedible lawn, manicured inedible bushes, and an energy wasting home design. Many homes might be partially built from the waste of other homes (reclaimed materials) and / or be partially unpermitted. It might even be accepted by the community that squatting in vacant investment property is moral and it is immoral to develop housing in a way that drives out people who make less money.
The point being that small communities can grow that do not share materialistic means of achieving self esteem through consumption and as they grow people who use consumption as a means to achieve self esteem will find the area unattractive and keep out.
A volcano that threatens to flow through any large property development investment projects every decade or so also contributes to attracting one type and discouraging traditional investors.

On the small scale, family level, these kinds of dwellings do need occasional large purchases wisely chosen that will last more than one lifetime. They also need a small amount of cash flow to purchase minor consumption items (like spices). But they essentially run off of a fraction of what an average suburban family needs to live off of.
Their shelter, food, water, rest and safety needs are met with very little costs.
Then as a community; intimacy, sex, reproductive , friendship needs are also met without conspicuous consumption. Nobody watches TV or at most minimally and they all mostly miss out on being delivered a daily dose of needs that require being purchased away.
Capitalism as we know it could not survive if even a small portion of the population chose to live like this. The capitalism we know requires an ever growing list of new needs to be created to build low self esteem and a product provided just in time that can be purchased to fill that gap.
The threat to these "alternative " communities is always external and usually for development purposes for a few individuals to make hundreds of millions of dollars per project. They lobby state and local governments to enforce stricter codes under the guise of safety and the environment when they are really just to keep a population addicted to consumption capitalism.

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Very Integral :slight_smile:
The highest level of leadership is when the goals manifest and you receive no credit at all. Call it Conscious co-Operative Capitalism, Mayberry, classic Free Market Economics, Bob, 2nd Tier Marxism. What’s in the name…
:slight_smile:

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I don’t think our choices have to be either-or, but rather, both-and. Supporting one another locally is not antagonistic to globalism, imo. Executive’s CC-OC idea to me does fit with what is being called “regenerative cultures” which focus on local community cooperation and also regional cooperation. When the NE and the NW parts of the U.S. worked together during certain phases of the pandemic in determining travel limits, for instance, across state lines, that was a form of what is meant by re-generating a (regional) culture.

It doesn’t have to be JUST local collectives of cooperation, not JUST supporting the local businesses (because FermentedAgave is right in that some people cannot financially afford goods through the local shop when Walmart or Costco offers them better deals). But it also doesn’t have to be JUST Walmart and Costco, Amazon and Starbucks. What is “on the side” of Executive’s idea is that the pendulum has swung too far towards the big boxes and big bucks and big capitalism and big competition, and there is room for a swing to the other side. When 5 people in the world own 50% of the world’s wealth, that is a system that is bonkers, imo, particularly given the levels of poverty we’re seeing.

Competition within a context of cooperation is to me sort of akin to the idea of autonomy within the context of community/relationship. Neither competition nor autonomy are going away anytime soon, but they do need to fall back into the fold of a greater whole.

I think some of raybennet’s comments about capitalism and products being created to keep people “wanting” (and buying) and also consumption and self-esteem hold some water. We are definitely an overly materialistic culture, and too dependent on validation from the exterior world, and there are too few people talking about that.

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Thank you for your contribution to these ideas. I am grateful that we have such contrasting visions and observations. Paramount to me would be validating everyone in the system. That is important to any genuine and long-term successful system. Tearing down the successful or setting lower expectations for those at the bottom are some suggested ways of doing that.

I would suggest supporting those at the bottom to learn to contribute back to the community at large. This is a stronger culture than one that simply provides a bare sustenance for survival and denies one the dignity and satisfaction that comes through living a positive productive life.

@raybennett Your comment certainly paints a vivid picture of the future that seems to be unfolding in front of our eyes. My hope, and perhaps @FermentedAgave and @LaWanna and even you too @raybennett, is that we can do better than that and improve our world for everyone.

If we consciously cooperate together. Commit to an Integral capitalist community. One that values and encourages everyone in the system. For each to find their part in giving back to the community at large, especially those at the bottom. Through a vision and a Conscious Cooperative Capitalistic endeavor we can not only survive but perhaps we can thrive in a better more integral life for everyone?

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I was gifted a Conscious Co-Operative Capitalism experience about 10 years ago.

We had a beautiful 8 inch snow cover creating a winter-wonderland scene. The doorbell rang and a very polite, cordial, clean cut young man had walked the long way around our walkway (4 times longer than cutting straight across the yard) and told me his story. He had graduated from our high school (top 200 in US) and was sorting out what to do with his life. He was playing American Legion baseball (turns out HS graduates can keep playing without going to college) and his coach was helping him figure out what was next. He didn’t need to say it, but he wasn’t college material and his short stature meant he wasn’t going to have a pro/semi-pro baseball career.

He offered to clear our driveway and sidewalks for whatever I felt fair. This young man, with vulnerability and personal honesty - told me that he needed me. He didn’t demand or cajole. He didn’t guilt, shame or manipulate. There were no victim cause, social injustice, or “life isn’t fair”. There was no Woke woe-be-to-me story. He created the space to bless me with the opportunity to have a deep and ever changing experience that him and I are in this life together. We are the same. We need each other. It doesn’t matter what we look like or how articulate we are. We’re all in this together.

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Here’s the thing - Feudalism was a great system for it’s time. People needed to be able to grow food without being slaughtered by barbarians and any military response to barbarians needed to be professional / dedicated, localized, using the latest technology (mounted armored knights) and flexible.
Capitalism also has produced tremendous benefits to civilization.
But Green postmodernism has pointed out some glaring faults with capitalism and they presented the ideas of Communism, Socialism and various hybrids of Liberal Capitalism.
Just as I do not think we can alter Feudalism a little and make it work for the next century, to a lesser extent I don’t think another adjustment to Capitalism is the answer going forward (and neither is Socialism).
The jump from first Tier to second Tier, to my understanding is transformative and I think it requires a complete re-think from bottom to top of every aspect of an issue.
I just don’t think tweaking capitalism here or there is going to work for a global 2nd tier society.
On the contrary - I see that if even a small minority of the population do advance to second tier, capitalism will collapse due to flaws that have to do with the very basis of what it is: an Orange Economic system.

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Excellent read that seems apropos for the discussion: Beggars in Spain by Nancy Kress

@LaWanna Should we define and codify into regulations this Conscious Co-Operative Capitalism? Should you and I who perhaps can afford to “shop local” have a legal requirement to do so while say someone on UBI be regulated to only “buy cheapest available”? Or perhaps we put tariffs on the “cheap stuff” but give low income a “discount” card?

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No, no, no, and no :slightly_smiling_face:

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Well then if it’s an Include and Transform, then how do we do that? :slight_smile:

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I’m not sure I understand your question. Plus, I have to exit here now, maybe tomorrow.

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Do we legislate “support thy neighbor”? Or somehow include and transform?
Ciao!

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We envision this as an emotional and spiritual movement spring-boarding off the trauma the world has experienced culminating in the 2020 world shut-down. A collective movement to push back against the system that has been dividing and separating us now for over two decades.

The world has become more and more polarized, creating deep cutting separation. We occupy the same physical space but our social networks and ideological associations connected by computer algorithms are polluting our biological human connections; putting family members, living in the same household, in completely different worlds.

Everyone is feeling alienated to one degree or another; and this pace of change will only continue to hasten. Dramatic change always lead to a unifying energy among the collective to unite and pursue their own cause.

This negative energy needs to be harnessed and leveraged into positive actions within local human biological connections. Uniting in common goals of conscious cooperative connections to positively support all involved in the group collective. As these groups unite and connect they accumulate power to become a movement of positive change from an integral perspective of conscious cooperation.

We become a healing love-virus that spreads throughout the system. Not against anyone or anything but … FOR a conscious cooperative capitalism that unites the best of our civilization accomplishments.

As these united groups grow and expand they do so from the bottom up on a positive trajectory. Turning the tables on the top-down power structures that are clearly no longer viable long-term.

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I present a counter question:
Why, out of a dozen solutions to any given problem, do you often present legislation as the only option?

Legislation is essentially forcing people to do something on pain of punishment by the government.
I would present the opposite argument - that if we stopped passing legislation that forced people to buy globally, communities would develop their own food sources locally. Centralized food production and distribution is a very outdated 19th-20th century model and will not be sufficient for the worlds growing population - as we saw in COVID when the Global supply chain started to suffer the slightest strain. It also provides an inferior (but cheap) product.

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Why do I mention legislation?
I don’t think the world is lacking “great ideas” since the vast majority of great ideas I see flow across this integral forum are already alive in the world and practiced by 100M’s or B’s of people, to varying degrees.
If anything the world is lacking implementation of these great ideas. If you can’t/won’t/unable to convince say 49% of the population, then just pass legislation and tell them what their behaviors should be. Not sure how integral it is, but “those people” can’t seem to understand so pass legislation while you can.

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This is a great fear many people have on both sides - that 30% can trick another 21% into passing legislation that directly threatens the 30% at the opposite end (with 19% probably “undecided” or “don’t care”).
I recognize that there are many people (let’s say the left 30%) who believe this should be done “tit for tat”, because that is what they believe was done in the previous 4 years, but I also recognize that there is a great deal of fear and paranoia by the opposite right 30% that this will be done because it’s exactly what they tried to do and would do again if given the opportunity.

It’s my opinion that those who are able to understand Integral Theory and are attempting to implement it in their lives do not follow this fear-based model and are looking for solutions rather than just reacting to fear impulses.

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There is a lot of “fear”, but we might want to also assume that people are in fact voting for what they think “best”?
Great thing about the US with our representative democracy is by design it adapts to what the citizens want. If we don’t get it quite spot on, we have another election. And given our economic engine, diverse social network, security/safety, health we can withstand 4 or 8 “bad” years. And we can modify course with the White House and/or Senate and/or House. The adaptive nature, at least to me, is truly a culmination of everything humankind has “gotten right” throughout history.
So yes, there is certainly “fear” in lots of decision making, but there is also significant wisdom in a woman’s “no, let’s pump the breaks on that idea” or a man’s “we need this change”.
Just look at the amazing changes we’ve made in the last 10 years, 20 years, 50 years. It’s shocking the rate at which the US keeps getting better and better.
I think great news right now is a sea change in awareness level in the “trickery” that goes on with our politicians and media (Amygdala Hijack). We see viewership spike or plunge, we see new news networks deploying, new social media networks, and GAFA executives testifying to Congress and their European counterparts.
It’s all a big messy hairball of an adaptive system with loads of fear, amazing wisdom, and enormous good will at work.

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