How to Teach Kids About Sex and Gender

[FermentedAgave]

I am not sure why that should be the goal. The goal should be to reduce suffering, and to acknowledge that complexity at this scale always requires some degree of “wiggly room”.

We differ on validity on viability of a Utopian Nanny State vs a State that continually iterates through a complex meta-systemic world.

I don’t buy it. Maybe with a balanced Supreme Court, I’d have some faith. But the the current 6-3 skewing (which does not accurately represent the views and values of the nation) means, to me, that conservative ideology will take precedence over, you know, precedents.

What? We have elections every 2 years which typically counter balance the Executive election. The pendulum swings. Like I’ve said before, if you’ve got “the answer”, then ammend the Constitution, pack the Supreme Court and Federalize everything and you’re golden.

I simply think that eliminating obstacles between a 12 year old and her necessary abortion will go wrong less often than reinforcing obstacles. It also prevents children from seeking unsafe, possibly lethal abortion alternatives because they fear their parent’s judgment. So let the doctors be the intermediary, not the government, I say.

Which abortions as “necessary” in your view?

They call the “slippery slope” a fallacy for a reason I simply do not subscribe to the idea that “we should not do anything, because something could at some point go unexpectedly wrong somewhere”. Perfect is the enemy of the good, and all that.

Right. That cute slippery slope is only a fallacy when it’s a concern with those that don’t agree?
Didn’t you just use the “I don’t buy it” when I said we would course correct as we always do? If you are being logical, I’m not following it (or am being non Teal).
Or are you afraid that an ideology counter to yours is likely to grow for a decade? Tangerines are delicious.

I personally think forcing an adolescent to bear a child would count as child abuse, as would denying them a life-saving medical procedure. So the government (or, in this case, the doctors) can intervene.

Ok. So when Jamall climbs through Brittany’s window and knocks up, it’s now a “life threatening” scenario? Very life threatening for Jamall Jr in your world.

Now, as for your slippery slope, couldn’t some say that denying gender reassignment surgery would also qualify as abuse? Sure, they could, and probably will — but I don’t think the law would support that. It would not qualify as a medical emergency, because the parent is not actively doing something to harm their child, and remains something the adolescent can still consider once they are an adult. But even this is a bit more complex than all that — for example, I think I am okay with things like puberty blockers for adolescents who desire them, with all of the psychological and physiological treatments required to access those therapies, so long as the effects of those puberty blockers are reversible (which, as far as I understand, they are).

I think we’ve know for many decades that mental development is highly formative until at least 25. This is not a new concept.
We’ve compromised on 18 as the age of Majority since we need malleable soldiers in time of war, and cotes in elections. You’re saying we should open the flood gates to humans who are going through the most profound hormonal, physical and mental transformations a human goes through to make life altering decisions, without the knowledge of or guidance from their closest human caretakers?
Interesting idea. What could possibly go wrong giving the teenagers the keys to the liquor cabinet, the car, the pot stash, and syringes of hormones?
And if we don’t it’s “child abuse”. Makes sense in Zones 5 and 9.

[corey-devos]

We differ on validity on viability of a Utopian Nanny State vs a State that continually iterates through a complex meta-systemic world.

Do we? You think that is an accurate representation of my views?

What? We have elections every 2 years which typically counter balance the Executive election.

This is rendered invalid by the fact that McConnell already stacked the court by denying Obama a hearing for McConnell’s own suggested nominee, Merick Garland, who McConnell said Obama would NEVER nominate because he wasn’t extreme enough. This was political foul play, and it radically skewed our Supreme Court for at least a generation. The left simply doesn’t play that dirty. Maybe they should, but the legitimacy loss would be a big risk. It’s tough to “course correct” when the ship is being sabotaged from within.

Didn’t you just use the “I don’t buy it” when I said we would course correct as we always do?

What does that have to do with slippery slope arguments?

Which abortions as “necessary” in your view?

Any time a 12 year old is pregnant, for starters. Anyone under 18, really, but the lower the age, the more necessary it is.

So when Jamall climbs through Brittany’s window and knocks up, it’s now a “life threatening” scenario?

Strange that you chose stereotypically black and white names for your example LOL.

Yes, if Jamall knocks up a 12 year old, forcing the 12 year old to carry the pregnancy to term threatens her life and future.

You’re saying we should open the flood gates to humans who are going through the most profound hormonal, physical and mental transformations a human goes through to make life altering decisions, without the knowledge of or guidance from their closest human caretakers?
Interesting idea.

Did I actually say that? Or are you doing that thing once again, where you exaggerate and catastrophize my views into straw men for dramatic effect?

Do you understand that “syringes of hormones” are not freely available, are not given over the counter, and require rigorous analysis by psychological and medical professionals (aka “caretakers”)? I personally believe it should require a minimum of, say, two or three years of therapy before such treatment is offered, and continued treatment should require continued therapy until the child is old enough to decide for themselves whether they want to pursue their transition.

And as I stated, it’s a deeply contentious and complex issue, and one that requires careful thinking and minimally-worldcentric moral reasoning. But in the end, I tend to care more about real people dealing with real challenges, than hypothetical people dealing with hypothetical challenges (again, without ever losing sight of the other…).

[FermentedAgave]

Yes, if Jamall knocks up a 12 year old, forcing the 12 year old to carry the pregnancy to term threatens her life and future.

Ok. So any teen pregnancy is considered life threatening Perhaps any pregnancy at all since children are one of the biggest hassles known to humanity.

Did I actually say that? Or are you doing that thing once again, where you exaggerate and catastrophize my views into straw men for dramatic effect?

No Corey, I’m not saying you said that. But since we are opening up the State getting into the Family business. I wanted to find out if you see any limits. Based on your reply it sounds like “within reason” on hormone and gender transition therapy.

Let me see if I’ve got this close to accurate.
You don’t think requiring parental inform as necessary for a teen abortion, it’s not a bad thing if the child does inform their parents.