“Rule of Law” - completely depends on what the law is.
I do not want to live under the Code of Hammurabi, that’s for sure. So we can’t just say “rule of law” as if all legal codes are equal when they are not.
The Rule of Law under Donald Trump means whatever he does is legal and whatever injures his Ego is illegal. So no, nobody sane would want the Rule of Trump Law. A rule that changes on the whims of an insecure man who can’t focus for even 5 minutes is a rule of insanity, and that particular flavor of rule by insanity is also backed by threat of violence and constant aggression.
Most people on this site agree that the Rule of Green Law has gone to some degree of excess and needs to be adjusted, but the more rational understand that the answer is not Trump Despotism and going all the way down to Amber.
Agreed. I would amend my statement to say, I value “rule of law” insofar as those laws are deliberated and legislated from a minimally orange worldcentric stage, even if necessarily enforced by amber. But that amber enforcement must be surrounded by minimally-orange discussions of justice, and accountable to orange standards and mechanisms of justice. (And of course, we can layer in some healthy green views and enactments of justice, such as the entire concept of “restorative justice”.)
Amber institutions that remain unaccountable to orange standards almost always fall into various forms of abuse, whether we are talking about police forces, the Catholic Church, the Boy Scouts, the military, the Trump admin, etc. Any amber system that is responsible for investigating itself will inevitably become abusive.
This is a good description of the challenge facing us and the reasons for the crisis of Humanity on a global level. Amber humanity does not want to give up power, and has declared all-out war on Green, being entirely willing to throw out Orange to accomplish it and falling back to Red.
It’s unclear to me if the solution of finding commonality with such a “reality based community” will work in the long term, or if a heavier hand in establishing boundaries is needed. With someone like Rove and his mindless followers, I think finding commonality falls close to “studying” in terms of effectiveness in changing actions.
The only way to halt such a reality based community is to strictly set limits on one’s own reality and one’s shared community reality, and impose a heavy price for infringing on those boundaries. Re-evaluate and re-launch Green-based action moving into a Teal 2nd Tier Reality rather than evaluation, in Rove’s terminology.
… an election that was stolen. Civil disobedience is open to interpretations, and Wikipedia on civil disobedience explores some of them. Citing Howard Zinn:
Zinn rejects any “easy and righteous dismissal of violence”, noting that Thoreau, the popularizer of the term civil disobedience, approved of the armed insurrection of John Brown. He also notes that some major civil disobedience campaigns which have been classified as non-violent, such as the Birmingham campaign, have actually included elements of violence.
The thing is that the stealing of an election is an illegal act… a denial of fundamental rights, a violent act, an imposition of one party’s will over another… some might rightly describe it as an act of war. This being the case, how violently this faux insurrection is portrayed by the Left should be placed in the context of the declaration of war that theft of an election amounts to. Because theft of an election is a declaration of war.
Extraordinary claims without evidence should be summarily dismissed. I understand you believe the election was stolen, but without sufficient evidence, it’s just that — a belief system. A mythology. A narrative.
Sydney Powell, Lyn Wood, Giuliani, and The My Pillow guy are all proven frauds.
Also, do you apply those same standards of “violence is sometimes okay, if I support the cause” when it comes to BLM? You already characterized them as “bad violence” didn’t you?
Go write a book on that and teach losers to be even bigger losers like you other books do.
Oh, boo-hoo-hoo, your audience are the perpetual victims and you profit from further explaining to them about their victimhood. Now you have discovered another way to profit from their weak, worthless selves - not just regarding how they are victims of women, but now all Liberals tried to steal democracy from them and that is why they can justify destroying American society.
Ok, let’s burn it all down, eh? I’m ready. You pour the gas and I’ll light the match. Maybe from the ashes something might grow, but as it is, our culture has developed into barren ground. There needs to be a complete teardown, so if you are up to the task, have at it brother.
Come on @corey-devos . Flash all the statistics for us on some of our previously beautiful cities’ current states of health and basic safety.
Are you happy with the murder rate for black on black crime?
Are you happy with the number of unarmed black’s killed by police?
Are you happy with the number of police killed?
Are you happy with the drug overdose rates?
Are you happy with the number of US citizens killed by illegal aliens?
How are each of these trending?
Of should we just say “fuck it” and “go post/neo/meta” so we can look down onto humanity like watching ants carry a beetle into their nest?
For drug overdose, it’s rising most dramatically in Red States with the opioid crisis, so they just need to learn what cities like LA learned in the 1980’s-1990’s
All my life we have had a word for someone who blames everyone but themselves for losing a competition. The term is LOSER.
A loser accuses the other side of cheating. A loser blames the referee, or the sunlight - everything and everyone except accepting that he lost. In any competition, there will always be someone who wins the competition and someone who loses the competition. When the side that loses does not accept the loss, they become LOSERS.
Now, we have not only a former President who is a Loser, but also a whole movement in society who are Losers. They are obsessed with it - by continuing to define themselves as losers by refusing to just recognize the simple facts that they lost a competition, and coming up with all kinds of ridiculous nonsense just because they can’t accept a loss. That is how the mentality of a LOSER gets deeply engrained into a person’s identity.
You know who wasn’t a loser? Hillary. She lost. She accepted it, then moved on.
Let’s see, who else - Obama and Biden. Accepted the loss in 2016 with grace and professionalism, and reached out to Trump to assist him into a smooth transition. Their “team” lost, but they acted like winners.
@steljarkos I thought you were bonding with @raybennett and hoped to watch his bromance with you to blossom.
But alas, it seems Mr. Bennett has decided to be my own personal and tenacious dingleberry. Thanks little buddy for hanging with me through my dementia
Our cultures are no longer viable. They’re breaking down. What worked in the past no long does so. The unravelling reaches a point where it becomes self-evident, and you have to assume that the election could not have concluded to safe, proper and secure standards. Systemic voter fraud ceases to be extraordinary, but likely and to be expected… especially when the proven MO of one party is “whatever it takes”. The absurdity of the outcome and its accompanying fallout provides its own evidence. The claim of a rigged election is no longer extraordinary. Nothing extraordinary about it at all.
The list of proven frauds among the Democrats is even longer.
As per Wikipedia’s reference to violence expressed in the pursuit of a just cause that one believes in, in the context of political injustice, citing Howard Zinn… this is very different to the blind, toxic rage motivated by hate and whose sole objective is mayhem, violence and destruction.
Much projection goin’ on here. Elections are not tournaments where winning the game against an opponent is the objective. An election is intended to represent the will of the people. And a fair election that concludes peacefully should always be the objective. Your winner/loser dichotomy is a strawman, no mature voter thinks in those adolescent terms.
The unravelling reaches a point where it becomes self-evident, and you have to assume that the election could not have concluded to safe, proper and secure standards.
Basing our worldviews on assumptions rarely works out very well. That’s the stuff Qanon is made of.
especially when the proven MO of one party is “whatever it takes”.
Do you mean the party who signed off on an illegal overthrow of our democratic election based on unsubstantiated allegations (and assumptions) of a stolen election? Or the party that robbed a sitting President of his Supreme Court pick? Or the party who literally has no political platform?
The list of proven frauds among the Democrats is even longer.
Maybe. But they weren’t the ones who were pushing false allegations of a stolen election in the courts. And the fact that 142 people from GOP administrations have been indicted, and only 2 under Democrats administrations, would seem to disagree.
Yes, that is a perfect description of the pictures I shared with you above. Did you watch that video of the officer being crushed in the door by Trump supporters? Some truly hateful, brutal stuff.
Oh my Corey. It’s much the same as your language of Christians - all literal mythic cavemen. With anything on the other side of center they believe not surprisingly in your view extremely primative ideas.
It’s always more powerful to stay with your on ideals expressed positively.
The victim claim is always a nice touch. Obama could have always nominated someone palatable.
And there is a very well defined platform. You claiming it doesn’t exist is laughable. Lol
Have you seen any of my many writings and treatments of Christianity over the last 20 years that are on this site? Absolutely another straw man.
A claim was made that Democrats are the “do whatever it takes” party, so I offered a list of actions taken by the GOP that much better fit the description.
Which part did you take exception to? The part about Trump admitting he wanted Pence to overthrow the election, and had multiple GOP representatives sign off on his fake electors?
Or maybe it was the “literally has no platform”? I wasn’t being cute or dramatic. It’s not a euphemism for “they don’t believe in anything”. The GOP literally ran with no platform in 2020, and as far as I know, have not presented one since.
With anything on the other side of center they believe not surprisingly in your view extremely primative ideas.
Wait, aren’t you the guy constantly accusing people to the left of you of being Marxist totalitarian collectivists?
Obama could have always nominated someone palatable.
You mean someone other than the very same guy the GOP specifically named, saying Obama would never choose him because he was too bipartisan? McConnell did not state that Garland was not qualified. His stated reason was that we were “too close to an election” (over 9 months away). And of course, completely reversed his stance by rushing ACB through a week before an election. He very clearly did a “whatever it takes” power play, and I think deep down you know it.
Yes, especially the part about “an election is intended to represent the will of the people.” Which is why it is so surprising to me that you are unfazed by Trump wanting Pence to directly overthrow the will of the people. More “rules for thee, not for me”? Or maybe just “the ends justify the means”?
To be honest, Corey, I don’t know how to respond to many of your objections. For example, the policeman being squeezed against the door. What about Fasctifa bigots stomping on heads of unconscious victims already laid out (as per video clips of the Antifa/BLM riots)? No comparison. Stomping on someone’s head is verging on attempted murder. Pushing against a policeman pushing against you is not nice, but it is not attempted murder. Anger is anger and in the heat of the moment, shit happens. But stomping on heads, knifings and shootings, far exceeds the heat of the moment. It is depraved violence. In my previous life as a progressive, I’m familiar with the “wishful thinking” mindset that wants to see oppression where there is none. At one level, they believe stuff, but at another level it is disingenuous because it does not come from an authentic base. Are you seeing things a they are, or as you want them to be?
We each see the world from within our own silos of experience. For me to step out of my silo and into yours, to understand how and why you interpret what you do, is very difficult. My head hurts. My default position, therefore, is to avoid getting embroiled in the “my oppression is worse than your oppression” Olympics. So please forgive me if I leave some of your objections unanswered.
I think this speaks to most of us here who get sucked into the tit-for-tat battles that feed our adrenal glands to energize us into feeling like we’re doing something to help heal our world, when in fact it’s the opposite.
Imagine if we made complete understanding of one-another’s points of view our objective? Not sarcastic rejecting, or name-calling, always challenging, one-upping, gang-upping, but simply acknowledging and fully understanding each other … how fruitful and delightful could those conversations be?
Conversations that actually informed … everyone speaking freely to be fully understood and acknowledged … not to gain agreement but to gain understanding. Imagine that type of community dialog flowing into all areas of our life and world?
Imagine how quickly such a positive place would attract others to be heard and understood? Think what amazing conversations we would have when everything is fully exposed and understood from all points of view. How interesting, informative, integral and strengthening such positive sharing would be?
Could we define that as spiritually holistic …? When the fighting ends agreements surface … maybe even a loving caring connection to actually help heal our ailing relationships?
I have no answers to share … only a spiritual desire that bubbles inside of me that want’s to feel full and satisfied with all my fellow human citizens who desire such positive connection. That includes each of you. ~ Peace and Love to You All!
