Integral Interpretation of Abortion, Abortion Bans


#201

I wouldn’t conflate Integral Life with the massive platforms given their incredible reach.
What if it were Native American Injustice Warriors or Black Lives Matter? Is it permissible to shut down their website as they are holding a fund raiser?

A recent example is Tulsi Gabbard immediately following a round of the Democratic Presidential Debates. Coincidentally as her search inquiries on Google’s search engine spiked, the semiotic AI (with likely human oversight) shut down her Advertising as interest in Gabbard peaked.


#202

I think “public commons” typically is used regarding “public discourse”. Cable/TV is 99% broadcast with virtually no public discourse.


#203

Private companies dump advertisers all the time for things they say. You can’t possibly know how much anyone paid to go up in the Google rankings in the first place, lol. Again, you’re advocating for the equivalent of the government telling FOX news which advertisers it has to air.


#204

Google search is not a public discourse either. That’s just off the top of my head.
You’re basically cherry picking based on your own political preferences.


#205

This is the whole 100% problem with government oversight - If people like you get into the government position that would supervise it, lol.
Game over. No democracy.
Exactly how it happened in former Communist countries in eastern Europe.


#206

I apologize for the “emotional” adjective I added, my bad :slight_smile: I would just like to request a straight-up answer from you. Where is the bridge to connect these contradictory impressions so that everyone on all sides can agree? Or is such a peaceful arrangement and understanding unrealistic here on this platform?


#207

No need to apologize. If you have an emotion, recognize it. That’s my point.
If it’s someone else’s emotion that’s for them to realize. It’s always risky to believe another person has an emotion they have not yet themselves recognized.

And that’s basically my “bridge” as well. The solution is inner awareness and acceptance, not anything outward. Well, that’s the first step. If everyone just did step 1 we might not need a step 2, lol.
Think of sparring - two opponents boxing each other in a ring, or playing a game of basketball. So long as the competitors don’t get “salty”, it’s a healthy hobby. In the old days we called it “sportsmanship”. As soon as salt gets added to a competitive sport that’s when it gets unhealthy.
The agreement on all sides has to be to have a friendly competition and at the end of a boxing match to shake hands. Even when things get really “competitive” and Tyson bit off Hollyfield’s ear, lol - they left that behind them, worked it out and I think they’re friendly now.

So to repeat my straight - up answer so there’s no question what my answer is: Look inward and recognize and accept our own emotional state and understand that disagreement isn’t unhealthy. What is unhealthy is negative emotional reactions to disagreement and unwillingness to recognize those emotions within oneself.


#208

I’m not sure that is something I’d wish for. My appreciation of the issues surrounding abortion has become more nuanced and complex as a result of the tumultuous exchanges here.
What it may be possible to agree on though is that we have a degree of respect for the process here. I failed to respect that process when I set up a reduction ad absurdum argument without flagging it up as such. It led to being mistaken for a straw man argument. My bad.
However these threads are not academic discourses with points lost for bad logic, incorrect conflation and disconnect etc, frustrating as that may be. So perhaps we need to simply remind ourselves - a point made in this thread earlier - we accord each contribution with respect. If we read something which we believe to be intolerable, then tolerating it is equally intolerable. Yet we can call it out with respect.


#209

Yeah, I didn’t get into it because there was so much other chaos - but the reduction ad absurdum is difficult to see when people actually do believe the ridiculous argument (not you but people do present the “ridiculous” argument of “Does a Lettuce Leaf Life Matter” as a legit counter to “all life is sacred” or it’s common for people to use the slippery slope of “well where do we draw the line? Cows or Lettuce?”)
I guess you might never have had the privilege of discussing vegetarianism with such intellectual heavyweights? lol

In the wikipedia page the example:
“The Earth cannot be flat; otherwise, we would find people falling off the edge”
Would be hard to pull off as reduction ad absurdum if talking to a flat earther.


#210

Are you serious? The Woke’s obsession with politicizing policing incidents and turning them into a racist agenda is dishonest and it takes resources away from addressing the real problems with police administration. No doubt the following clips won’t interest you because it’s only whiteys dying, but there are others in this forum who are more level-headed and looking for truthful representations:

Daniel Shaver:

Justine Damond:

Tony Timpa

At least we agree on something.


#211

This is hardly straight up @raybennett in fact it’s ridiculous nonsense. I am beginning to realize that you are an avatar caricature with nothing genuine to share. You are disingenuous at best or perhaps you are calculated goading my spiritual position as you goad others here too?

My emotions of frustration and now irritation will weigh in as a sparring partner. Since you refuse to honestly engage with me I will take your suggestion and dance with you on your terms. Let me be straight-up with you with the following…

My emotions have now turned into pity for the weak person hiding behind the mask of superior intellect. That suffering woke soul that seems to know everything yet understands nothing is broken from coherent reality and honest dialog.

You don’t even know yourself … so your babbling rhetoric is void of rational thought and/or intellectual consistency. You are empty and seem to have nothing of your own to contribute … rather you’re like a parrot that just repeats words having attained nothing genuine of your own to share. I feel sorry for you.

I’m done … TKO! :slight_smile:


#212
  1. Where is the bridge to connect these contradictory impressions so that everyone on all sides can agree? (Meaning we are all understood)

  2. Is such a peaceful arrangement and understanding unrealistic here on this platform?

To which of these questions … or both?
I’d welcome your further comments @Andrew_Baines

The disconnect from consistent positions shows there is room for growth in understanding. There isn’t a Pollyanna Kumbaya place in the realities of abortion … war and killing and the many other unexplainable atrocities we witness in this life. There is not a winning side on these complex emotional topics.

Integral communication is trying to understand where everyone stands and respecting others enough to engage honestly and consistently. Those of us with lesser “thinking abilities” (like me) can follow the discussions to gain greater clarity on the subject matter to discover our own positions.

@FermentedAgave has been winning my admiration and has expanded my thinking by his consistency and continuity. From my vantage point he offers respectful yet intense challenges to the orthodoxies most prevalent here.

When answers to honest questions turn into mumbo-jumbo of circular reasoning and strawman finger-pointing we are failing ourselves and each other on this integral calling.

Thankfully some strong less vocal participants like you @Andrew_Baines and @steljarkos have shown-up here on this string to bring some intellectual meat back to the conversation. I do thank you both and send Love to all the participants here! ~ Peace :slight_smile:


#213

You approached me first as a would be saint. A peacekeeper.
You quickly turn to victim and now persecutor if I dont fulfill you needs and follow your ideology and presuppositions so now you try to lash out.

Your projections onto me really mean nothing to me.
I dont even care about them enough to “defend” myself.

YOU are emotionally frustrated.
I’m bemused.
If I didn’t think it was against the TOS I’d import my favorite avatar - a laughing buddha joyfully sticking both middle fingers.

I haven’t even entered the ring my man. You’re in one of those funny cartoons in a cloud of dust and when it clears you’ll be biting your own leg lmao.


#214

Ah - thank you for this, though.
If there is any sign that I am on the right path, it would be that another sees me as merely an Avatar. A caricature, better yet. The joker, The Fool. Wonderful!
Fool Archetype Characteristics Traits
The fool is one willing to cross cultural norms – to say the things others will not say or do things others wont without conscience or regret.
However, they are not necessarily unprincipled individuals and rarely set out to intentionally harm others.
The fool is a resilient individual, not caring what others think of them.
They are able to get back up easily when knocked down, finding fun and humour in the challenges which life throws their way.
They look at life as one long game, embracing every day as it comes.
Commonly the fool is an innocent individual, oblivious to the faux pas which they commit. (but not in this case :wink:)
They speak the truth, even when this makes them unpopular, and sometimes mask it in humour to get away with their words.
They poke fun at the ego of those around them.
They thus challenge authority and become the conscience of others around them.

If only your opinions meant anything to me, I might find joy in such high praise. Fortunately, neither your praise nor condemnation have any importance to me.


#215

Not to fear, the Court system is being exercised.

Federal Court to heart Texas’ arguments for the ban on Oct 1st before reviewing DOJ emergency block

Federal DOJ seeks emergency order to block Texas ban using argument that 14th Amendment denies States from blocking abortions before fetus is viable.


#216

Couple of statistics:

  • Texas abortions was ~58,000 in 2019 or an average of 4,800 per month.
  • Planned Parenthood performs abortions 97% of the time when a pregnant mother engages with them
  • 1% of abortions are due to rape

#217