Integrating stage red


#1

What are people’s ideas on how to integrate stage red? I’ve been trying to integrate red for ages now as I think this is what causes my anxiety - repressing strength and power. However, something I wonder is whether people can only have a healthy red if they have a healthy amber - because it would be an unhealthy amber which would have repressed red - I think a healthy amber would have integrated it - and when I was at red I was incredibly healthy (strong, heroic and powerful, and not at all mean). Perhaps when people have a stage they want to integrate it’s actually the stage above it they need to work on.

That being said, also what ideas do people have on working on integrating red/integrating red and amber?

Thanks.


#2

I think this Joe Rogan podcast with Jason Wilson is a really good example of someone who has integrated Red and Amber in a healthy way.

I believe it’s within the first 30 minutes that he covers Red specifically (he doesn’t use Integral terms) where he was training in martial arts and realized that he was too afraid to punch someone. Learning to be dominant and risk hurting someone in order to protect yourself and your loved ones is, at least what I would consider to be, an integrated “noble warrior” Stage Red. All in all, I think the podcast demonstrates a Teal thinker with a very, very positive masculinity who has integrated a lot of his shadow.

In addition, I also released a podcast about my own integration of Stage Red using psychedelics in which I realized that I disempower myself by not facing the egocentric impulses that I have. By honouring them and holding them in the light of consciousness I am far better able to deal with them. I use my relationship to women as an example.

I would say two tips based on those two podcasts:

  1. Try a fighting sport, learn to dominate someone and realize that it isn’t necessarily a violation
  2. Face your egocentricity with open arms, allow yourself your petty desires even if you choose not to satisfy them

#3

Completely forgot to mention your idea that integrating the stage above may be necessary.

In my own podcast that I linked above, I made the claim that integrating a previous stage is about filtering the positive aspects of a previous stage up the Spiral. So, a noble warrior Red filtered into Green would be the environmental activist who chains themselves to a tree and says, “I share the fate of the forest.”

Whether or not that’s an effective strategy that is clearly someone who is willing to live boldly, audaciously, to fight for what they believe is right, etc. They aren’t a coward by any means and are able to privilege their own perspective over the perspective of another. That is egocentric to a certain extent, but it is in service of a more worldcentric (or higher) value system. Without spaghettifying the nuances here, I think that roughly encapsulates what it means to filter Red up through the stages.

As for the stage just above the stage in question, I’m honestly not sure. If Red is crooked, that would cause Amber to be crooked, and then Orange, and so on. To straighten things out do we start from the bottom and work our way up? Or do we start from the top and work our way down? Perhaps it’s really a matter of Both/And, depending on the person and the element of that person in question. Each requires an individualized approach that only you can really know.


#4

Thank you :slight_smile: , I’ll look into these things. I listened to your podcast actually, very interesting. I do agree with that element of allowing one’s petty desires. It’s interesting actually because I don’t really get anxious around men, it’s mainly around women, and I wonder if that’s the reason - I subconsciously don’t want them to see me as creepy because I’m attracted to them and that causes anxiety.


#5

Hmm, I’m not sure. I would say one can have healthy higher stages even if the lower are unhealthy, but as an individual one wouldn’t be super healthy. I more mean though that amber looks down on red when amber’s unhealthy, orange looks down on amber when orange is unhealthy, green on orange and so on. Like unhealthy amber thinks red is bad because they don’t follow whatever rules they’re supposed to adhere to depending on the culture, unhealthy orange thinks amber is a stupid boring sheep because they do what they’re told and don’t have any of their own opinions or embrace their individuality, unhealthy green thinks orange is too focused on thinking and achievement and doesn’t pay enough attention to caring, community, empathy, equality. But if green were healthy that would then embrace those orange values, if orange was healthy it would embrace the amber values and so on.

I do agree that those red characteristics are important within the higher stages - in green, activism like you say, in orange - activism as well, and also the courage to follow one’s own path, and in amber - hmm, I’m not sure about amber. I think I’m not a fan of amber.


#6

I personally try to be careful with this line if thinking. I go back to Maslows Hierarchy of Needs. No food and shelter and its almost impossible to blossom into self actualization if for no other reason you are preoccupied trying to feed, defend, shelter your family, etc…
And of course we all have our arears to work on. Lol


#7

I meet at least once a week in a Men’s group where “red” issues come up quite often and are processed in a healthy way.
I have an invitation for an open gender group that will be online if you want me to forward it to you.

The first thing in my view that is most important is to accept we have these emotions and desires. Both men and women often experience (in different ways of course) negativity emotionally and even with physical symptoms because some time somehow they learned that those emotions were not appropriate. So both men and women are often afraid of their anger, and their power. They learned a lot of other things like shame, that they are not enough, they are not accepted, and so on and on. All of these have their roots in early childhood experiences where the child was learning what it thought it needed to learn to survive. Later in life, the survival lessons have not been updated so to speak, and this has to be done consciously.

So the approach we use is to first acknowledge the emotion, then trace it back and realize the negative belief can be updated to a more beneficial belief, then take some active steps toward implementing that belief even if it’s just a very small step. Then celebrating the achievement of that step and how it reinforces the new more beneficial belief. Then back the next week for more.

There are benefits to doing this alone but I think a group support at all stages pushes it along even more.


#8

I think it depends on the need and the person - for most people food and shelter are necessary, but then for holy people in the east, they forgo these needs to follow the higher paths. Also love and belonging - many people at orange get by without these things (all the lonely ‘nerds’). I think it will generally be easier though if the lower needs are fulfilled, but if one has enough psychic energy I think it’s still possible to forgo them.


#9

And yes. We mustn’t get too wrapped up in only our own problems.


#10

It’s very very common (as in almost everyone does it) to develop survival mechanisms that were entirely appropriate for when they were formed but are inappropriate at a later stage of development. a different cultural setting, etc.
As a child we may have learned to fear certain things, for example. But as a grown person we may or may not need to fear that same thing. As a classic example is wanting to please mother and / or father and / or authority figures. As a child pleasing mother or father very important to a child’s welfare, but as an adult and excessive desire to please can lead to a string of unhealthy relationships.
There are hundreds of other possible examples.


#11

Thanks. That sounds interesting.

I agree. It’s a very sad thing, and it seems something that could be so easy to help if helping people when they’re children instead of them trying to fix it later, because such seemingly small things can be difficult to untwist for children, and then by the time they’re adults they can have big cat’s cradles of knots. I also think when people have shadows in amber, they can often want other people to help them even though they know they are capable of helping themselves - this is something I do I think because there’s this idea that it’s ‘wrong’ to focus on myself.

This sounds like a good group. Hope it’s helping you.


#12

I’m finding this very common in men and I can only imagine it’s at least as common or even more common in women. It a common answer when people look back to their childhood at what negative belief they took on.


#13

Ive found Shamanic Drumming from the paradigm of soul splinter reintegration to be amazing but might be hard to locate a practictioner.
Also EMDR therapy is also shockingly effective for me as well. Lots of youtube audios out there.


#14

Being creative is also part of that as I recall from Spiral Dynamics, also from the integral mindfulness course, creating everlasting monuments so of being creative in that sense is part of stage red. Creating “ultimate” piece of art, creating the ultimate “song”, creating the ultimate residential building. Creating itself and the drive to create stems from stage red as far as I can tell.

The inner critic is the negative side, anger, hostility, internal criticism, introjection, retroflection, blame etc.

Then there is also the vulnerabillity side feeling that you could die every moment and or second and that you are ultimately vulnerable to outside forces in a sense and giving away your own power.

I will summarize from my notes:

Power and control. Feeling of pure unbridled power over people. Being totally in charge getting your way completely. Undeluded power all bow down, all of them are inferior. Much less then me amazing power laden self is. Sheer exhuberance and what loosers they are for doing so. All the women, men etc. Cars yachts houses over the world. I just took them I am a power god. I am totally save secure protected because of my power.

Healthy activities: Martial Arts, Weightlifting, Princess of the peer group, cool guy in the group or king in the group.

Power addiction: Glorify dominator, donald trump hitler, ultimate power, and destructivness to feel secure.

Power Aversion : Reject ones power, mommas boy or daddies girl, giving away power to everybody and world is trying to control you imprission you. Shadow power comes back.


#15

Hmm good point. It can take a lot of courage and grit to begin a creative project and finish it to it’s completion. Perhaps spending more time creatively is a good way to integrate stage red. I find when I do creative work though that I often go into a flow state which feels separate from the ego, which I would associate with red.

Yes I think self-compassion is the way to lower self-criticism. Doing a self-compassion therapy group helped me immensely with this. I used to be just like this https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMdoUUudq/ remembering everything slightly embarrassing and feeling mortified, and am not like that at all now.

I’ve also found weightlifting helpful. I tried aikido for a while but it made me feel dizzy, the idea of hurting and of being hurt I think, which is perhaps a reason why I should try it again.

Thanks.


#16

Hmm interesting. That quite surprises me actually but also makes sense.


#17

Glad they’ve helped you. Drumming in general sounds like a good idea actually. Have been meaning to try EMDR. I’ve done tapping which was helpful as well.


#18

You can actually do the Shamanic Drumming with audio tapes. There might be some self-guided audios available on youtube. I really enjoyed Sandra Ingerman’s Soul Retrieval book. For what it’s worth, the Shamanic work was automatic - worked ever single time - Journey away to Middle World, Upper World, Lower Worlds. We were completely “clean” even limiting caffeine only to avoid withdrawal symptoms (gotta have my coffee…).
The EMDR is a little more subtle but also very effective. I went to a counselor that provided some tapes, so I can relive our sessions with Dr. Dave’s voice guiding the sessions - it’s really cool. If memory serves your have or are working on a Psych degree (?). If so the EMDR is I think a great gift to people.

Bit of a rewind - There have been periods of my life when I tried to “up level” without taking care of business at lower levels. Whilst you can get the experience of, I think it very tenuous to sustain/maintain stable growth without clearing out each levels baggage. And even then it’s easy to fall back, then have to “re-ascend” - but then again I’m hardly a guru or shaman or lama or contemplative monk. This is where a real live physical community with similar intentions really really helps (family with shared spiritual practices, church, whatever).


#19

Weightlifting is highly integrative - and sorts out the body memories. I did a bit of Aikido and at least who I studied with was all about not injuring anyone. Learning to fall has been helpful. LOL


#20

Haha yes. My instructor was great and was all about not hurting people or yourself, but it seems a bit inevitable with any martial art. One person in the class had broken his nose several times and I gave one person a lift to the hospital because they’d broken their toe.