I think Ken hit the nail on the head in his book Trump and a post truth world. The Republican Party (Trump) is basically anti-green. Until Integral becomes a tipping point conversation I don’t see this changing anytime soon. I do believe AOC and other progressives in the Democratic party have pushed the subject into water cooler talks. Some criticism I have of Ken is my desire to see him enter himself more into the National arena-specifically with promoting the Integral lens in politics.
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Hey everyone, I think we are beyond the point of raising awareness and this is a good thing. I agree that some dissonance might be at play and so I felt a bit relieved when I learned that about 60% of the US population was now concerned by CC. China seems to be on board too so that is a big chunk. The economic dynamic is the biggest challenge to surmount in my view. In reality, to limit the impact to a minimum it would have been necessary to cut our global output (in its current form) by about 50% and that some 20 years ago. This is, of course, unrealistic and would have never passed the vote. But it gives us an idea of the magnitude of the problem. Another interesting development is the billionaires out there, stating that capitalism in its current form needs to evolve.
From here, it becomes always more imperative to yes, still monitor and communicate on the severity of the issue and develop completely new economic models that address the root cause of the dynamic unfolding. That’s where a highly focused and strategic approach on multiple fronts is necessary (and yes communication towards a more traditionalist view is important and there are some good case studies out there as mentioned). I think one of the most important strategies is helping the pluralistic worldview in shifting as quickly as possible to a more integral perspective and also helping integral voices speak louder and come out of the closet like KW like to say. We have some 5 years to gain 5 more percent on the teal perspective (in the hope that the 10% threshold theory is good enough). From there we might have more chance to see the emergence of new models and see further adoption towards a massive transformation.
One other approach I have been thinking about for a while is having an alliance determined to transform the socio-economic models within the current structure. That could act as a showcase of what integral politics and economics would look like. There are already lots of good elements in place but something generating a bit more of a wow factor could definitely inspire lots of people. In that line of thoughts, I think it would be interesting to link in an integrative and multidisciplinary way many models, technologies, and infrastructures that could lead to more advanced forms of development. The politics about which forms of energy and business model has been debated in the last 40 years with too little success but all the know-how and technology is already available to make most of the transition. It’s now clear that we need to come with an integrative approach to development. It really comes down to our shared creative genius and capacity to relate in ways that are yet to be seen. I think we have to look at it as a golden occasion to shift towards a global state of prosperity in plurality and unity. That doesn’t mean we hide from the pain, suffering, and annihilation that we now face but we see it and use it as an ultimate transformative call. Something along those lines.
Does anyone know if there is a map or repository of all the relevant research and case studies done using the integral framework?
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Well, the short answer is No I don’t know of a specific map. I think one of the most interesting things happening at the moment is the question of capitalism, in its pure form, can continue. You have some serious major players stepping to the table saying that things need to change because its hurting the majority. Now, if that’s not Integral I dont know what is. Ray Delio recently entered the conversation if you google capitalism Delio.
That addresses the economic side of it. Basically, nothing is going to happen until the culture hits the tipping point of Integral. Green levels have to feel like the good guys in Game of Thrones last night being ambushed by the dead. Only in this example, Integral is the next wave coming and …we are good. (Besides that new pathology we are carrying…)
Yes, I saw a few of Dalio’s talks and still going through more of his stuff. I was a bit disappointed by his model of the economy being represented by a big mechanic machine. Such a model is definitely part of why finance is deeply failing so something to improve there. The good vs bad guys is one of the biggest memes that needs some deep cleaning, I think. Sometimes I feel like we are waiting for a Marvel superhero to come to the rescue of and from ourselves. When is that episode playing?
Yeah, I read that and I dont mind the comparison. That was in the Principles book right? If I recall he was comparing the culture of the workplace and what the goals are of management. But if you read this capitalism piece it talks about needing a double bottom line, economic growth with awareness of social impact.
TVB, I don’t know if this will meet your needs/request for a map or repository (and I assume, hopefully correctly, that you’re talking about in the field of climate change), but google ‘research on climate change using integral theory’ and you’ll find a number of relevant writings.
That about 60% of the US population is now concerned with CC reminds me how fast things can change. I think of the legalization of same-sex marriage, how quickly that seemed to come about (‘quickly,’ and yet, that is not to negate the efforts made over the years; still it seemed like a nearly instantaneous event). So there is hope, possibility.
So about 5 years to gain another 5% of the population at teal…haven’t heard it put in such a way, but in the context of climate change, I get it.
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Thanks for the link. It’s actually this piece that got me curious about Dalio’s message. I thought it was interesting to hear someone who has been immersed in finance optimization for so long to realize that something had to be changed profoundly with capitalism. Personally, I find the analogy to a machine too simple to explain how the economy works. Such an analogy would be somewhat more accurate if the world was only made of self-optimizing individuals with rational minds and if it was lacking depth and therefore innovation and change and so on. Which is kind of the pitfalls of mainstream economic thinking. We have all sorts of dynamics, behaviors, drives, and preferences in an economy and we have the physical limitation of the planet. Behavior economics, externalities and double/triple bottom emerged as a counterbalance but we still have a lot to do in terms of understanding what an economic model of tomorrow would look like. Ideas like the [doughnut economics](https://www.kateraworth.com/blog/) model are interesting as they bring the idea of ecological limits and what is required for more equity. One other way I like to look at it is from each drive of the spectrum of development and how it can be integrated into economic development. Another element to bring in perspective is that a certain dynamic of capitalism tends to limit innovation in many ways and that is what I believe we need to go after profoundly. We are deeply invested in the fast deterioration of life-supporting conditions on earth and so we are stuck. That is among the reason why a more integral worldview is coming online.
Have you heard of this one? Anand Giridharadas: "Winners Take All: The Elite Charade of Changing the World
He is somewhat criticizing the double bottom line or win-win approach which has been around for a while. Also not to mention the rally against the super-rich nowadays. We’ve seen this before in history.
Thanks LaWanna, I was thinking more of the research papers done using the AQAL framework in different fields. I did a quick search and I found this link:
https://integrallife.com/bringing-perspective-climate-change/
I’ll listen to it when I get a chance. Maybe it’s a good base to continue this discussion.
I like your simple solution of planting a ridiculous amount of trees…I used to grow redwood trees from tiny burls when I lived in California, an amazingly easy thing to do and such delight in watching the first green shoots appear. I’d grow them in water until they were about 18" tall, then transplant into large soil pots and give them away when they reached about 4 feet tall. So I’ve done my share of growing and planting trees, redwoods at least.
The people you serve are fortunate to have you; you are so darn likable in these posts you share, and so clear-headed, that you must be quite a gift to those you interact with more intimately while helping them be more attuned to interiors and healing on inner levels. Yes, I do think the neglect of interiors is not only causative in the climate crisis, but in every other problem facing us. There has been conversation for decades though about how inner development is not keeping pace with development in the exteriors, so my thought is not particularly original.
I agree with your comments about dominator hierarchies ruling the day when it comes to most people’s stances towards the earth. NY Times columnist David Brooks wrote an interesting article about the American mythos around land https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/25/opinion/this-american-land.html. His suggestion was that the polarization/divisiveness in the country might be at least partially corrected through a revival of values connected to the different ways Americans have historically related to the land. I sometimes think, if there’s a silver lining in the climate crisis, it might be that a greater appreciation for the earth comes about-- if nothing else, for how absolutely formidable its elemental power is. It might be too late though. (I seem to be naturally a “wait and see” kind of person, rather than naturally optimistic or pessimistic).
Which isn’t to say I don’t hold great hope for integralism. I do. It’s the smartest and shiniest thing on the block, as far as I’m concerned, and the world’s best hope (save for a Superhero coming along, as TVB mentioned, but then again, maybe integralism is the Superhero…).
Thanks for telling me a little about your New Thought ministry.
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@furshizzle, much of what you’ve posted here would be considered conspiracy theory and is not grounded in scientific fact. I’m not sure that’s the direction we want to take this thread. I see this is your first post here (welcome!), so I’m wondering, did you perhaps join specifically to speak against the confirmed reality of climate change, or with some other agenda?
If so, please keep in mind that one of the main assumptions we adhere to in the Integral community is that we all live in a shared reality. While what you posted may be true for you, it most definitely is not true for the vast majority of the world, and also has a very, very low likelihood of being objectively true. As such, I feel it’s a distraction from the real issues that we are discussing in this thread.
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For anyone interested in using (sacred) ceremony for environmental healing and addressing climate change and its effects, this article is a good introduction to the subject. I personally feel this is a very important piece of the overall solution. gratefulness.org/resource/every-act-a-ceremony
Grace and peace!
And a warm welcome from the land of Cognitive Dissonance, as far as fossil fuels are concerned…coal country North Central West Virginia. Speaking against coal and other fossil fuels in this opoid wracked, meth smoking corner of the world is literally a “hanging offense.” The ONLY jobs for non-professional people without a 4 year college degree that pay more than minimum wage are in the coal mines or fossil fuel burning factories. That is it. No business, like Amazon, wants to put even a warehouse in this beautiful, yet economically poor, state anymore. Businesses used to open here because of the low cost of living, plentiful resources, and non-existent violent crime rate. Not anymore! WV has caught up with the rest of the world thanks to methamphetamine and oxycodone.
I truly wish we could convert the state into one giant wind farm. I am a Franciscan friar and I grieve daily over the pain I see not only in the eyes of the people here, but in the “eyes” of the planet around me.
The Green New Deal. The Paris Accords. Something!
We need a total change here! I am holding on to the sliverr of a hope that we may elect a democrat in 2020 who will start to change the conversation and begin to repair the damage. Marianne Williamson has the right ideas, but I am afraid that one of the Big 3 (Bernie, Beth, or Joe) already has a lock on the nomination. And they will just bring more of the same I am afraid. Anyway…that was my “two cents” worth from the frontlines of the climate war.
Pace E Bene. Namaste.
Hello All,
I realize how profoundly this issue of global climate change is being held by many, and especially many here in the Integral Community, so I want to first open my post here with a deep bow of respect to all. My reason for writing this post is twofold, but it seems that I should begin with the easily most big minded, big hearted part first.
I am the founder of a 35 year old non profit organization that is now working in 8 countries in Africa, the Caribbean, Mexico and Asia in reforestation, loaning money to small, rural farmers to convert from subsistence farming to tree cropping. https://plantwithpurpose.org/ (PWP) This has had the effect of lifting many rural farmers and families out of poverty, but also has produced many environmental benefits. Tree cover restores groundwater sources through rainfall catchment and runoff protection, creation of canopies which create microbiological soil habitats, adding soil porosity and water absorption, cycling of deep ground nutrients, increase in natural habitats, and micro-climatological impact through increased transpiration. Trees also have the added benefit of fixing significant amounts of atmospheric CO2, as is noted in some of the posts above. To date, this organization and its nursery in the Dominican Republic have together planted over 130,000,000 trees since 1984.
I am currently working with my youngest, millennial daughter, who is organizing a massive, new effort to reforest large areas of Central America. This work is attracting some serious help from professionals, and contemplates to undertake the three initiatives required to actually be a serious, effective reforestation effort: a) small scale social forestry efforts that work with poor rural farmers, who are often deforesting areas because of their own economic needs. This approach is what PWP has used successfully for 35 years. b) Larger scale plantation forestry, working with land owners who own larger land areas than subsistence farmers. c) Re-establishment and restoration of Wet Tropical Forests through replanting strategies and management.
This effort is targeting these Central American countries for several strategic reasons, which will be obvious to most of the Integral readers of this post. First, these countries are seriously deforested, and have become so in relatively recent history. The cycle of poverty that results from denuding natural forest cover is well documented, but write to me if you have questions about this cycle of cause and effect and want to push this out more. Secondly, the deterioration of rural economies in Central America is at least one of the reasons that an economic diaspora is going on right now, fueling the victimization of the poor to become immigrants to the United States. Creating wealth through reforestation at least contributes to more economic stability in the region. Thirdly, this area is mostly the humid tropics, and deserves to be protected and restored as part of our imperative as the caretaker species we should become, and would deliver many of the benefits I allude to above. Lastly, and perhaps most relevant to this thread of posts, is the fact that massive amounts of CO2 would again be fixed in the carbon mass of the trees planted. I hope to be able to report on our progress on this work, and maybe some of this community will join with us to make this a reality.
Now for the more touchy part of my post, but which I also offer with deep respect and compassion for those who may take issue with my perspective. Russ speaks above of the “confirmed reality of climate change”, and as I read through posts from the beginning of this thread, I note that anyone who does not hold this same perspective is characterized as either uneducated, unable to accept man’s ability or responsibility of generating this climate issue, a compromised defender of hydrocarbons, or a blue or green memed host who cannot make the evolutionary transition required to be in sync with this viewpoint. I have now spent over 20 years sifting this issue, including three months of studying this in depth in 1998, and have a distinctly different take on this. I do not hold the same conclusion as most here, and could hold a very nuanced discussion of this if anyone actually wanted, but not here in a post thread. Still, I have decided that this issue has become too polarizing, too emotional, and to a certain extent, too combative to actually vet with an in depth scientific dialogue. After some deep contemplation, I have dedicated myself to be a part of a solution that can unite people of many viewpoints around a solution that is more positive, less conflictive, and not as disruptive as dislocating entire industries, economies, agriculture, transportation and habitation worldwide. Hence, my focus will be on helping to plant massive amounts of trees, which I consider a non conflictive approach that can include my friends of all persuasions.
A partnership that I am a part of has an all solar house at the Private Nature Preserve project that I founded and manage in coastal Baja California Sur, Mexico, where I have lived for 15 years. I am an organic gardener, and live consciously with a small footprint and mostly light resource usage (the vehicle I drive is a pickup, and not great on mileage). I am very concerned about the destruction our species has exerted on our planet. There are an estimated 4.2 trillion trees in this world, after the deforestation of the last three millennia. Shall we plant another trillion or so, and do away with our perceived carbon issue together? Peace.
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Hello Friar (I almost called you Friar Tuck; I just watched an old Robin Hood movie and must have the beekeeper on my mind; I mean no disrespect to you.)
I grew up in parts of the Midwest where in the past, there had been a lot of lead and zinc mining, so there were these giant deep pits left over in different areas. The pits filled with rainwater and people swam in them (they were called “The Pits”). Until of course, someone a few years back called attention to the ill-health effects of that. At any rate, I can relate a bit to mining towns. Have you ever seen the movie “Matewan”? It’s about coal miners in W. Va. in the 1920s. Worth seeing. (I went 15-20 years seeing on average one movie a year, so I’ve been making up for it in recent months. Just watched “Babel” today, really effective at portraying human alienation across Moroccan, Japanese, Mexican, and American cultures.)
Also, I saw a headline (haven’t read the article) to the effect that when coal mines close, the women go to work, and I was just wondering what kind of jobs are available to women where you live? (Not that I’m thinking of moving there; just curious.)
I love the work you’re doing Thomas; I briefly checked out the Plant with Purpose website and will take a closer look later. Planting trees and addressing environmental issues at the same time as alleviating poverty at the same time as feeding “spiritual hunger,” that’s definitely on the right track in my opinion. I was in Puerto Penasco, Mexico on the Sea of Cortez earlier this year; hadn’t been there in many years, and other than a row of vacation rentals and hotels for Americanos, well-maintained in comparison to the rest of the town, since tourism drives the economy, it hadn’t changed much. Still very impoverished (though less so than other parts of Mexico, I’m sure), some sections having to haul water yet, little infrastructure like reliable trash pick-up, not all that many paved roads. And still colorful, literally and metaphorically. Any work going on in that area by your org? I know P.P. isn’t a forested area, but just wondering. They could use some trees for sure, the wind-blown sands and dust can’t be very healthy.
Yes, kudos to the work you’re doing; it’s these kind of efforts that give me hope. Thanks for sharing.
Grace and peace!
Friar is fine…and since I am bald and starting to get a bit “round”…Friar Tuck is okay too! I also swam in open pits full of rainwater as a youngster; some of our above ground strip mines leave such places. But we used them more as places to meet up smoke weed, drink beer, build bonfires, and make out. We did swim there from time to time (usually drunk, high, and naked).
I don’t recall seeing the movie Matewan, though I have been to the town several times. I have heard about it though. I quit watching movies after my wife passed away. She loved watching them. It is not about missing her or another like that. I don’t like movies because they don’t have commercials. I love reading so much that I enjoy breaks, like commercials, so I can read a book and watch a show without missing anything. I mean, movies on normal channels are okay, but HBO and stuff like that…nah.
And our womenfolk here just stay home and raise the young’uns. Oh, and cook and clean. They don’t work.
(Just kidding…just kidding). Women here have even less opportunities than the men so the ones who don’t have a child by age 18 leave the state for better locations. And, unfortunately, that is not very many.
Nice talking to you!
Pace E Bene.
LaWanna,
No work in or around Puerto Penasco by any group I am involved in, as that area of the lower Colorado River is a dry, and alkaline desert delta geography. As you would imagine, reforestation efforts are usually focused on areas with sufficient rainfall and growing cycles to be effective. Still, I have heard of an effort to plant parts of the Colorado River delta upstream from there.
As far as poverty, it surprises many when I mention that Mexico is the world’s tenth largest economy ( it is teetering between becoming tenth and may still be only the eleventh, not sure here), and the annual per capita GDP is somewhere around $8,700 last I checked. After spending time in Haiti and other countries in our hemisphere that are much worse, Mexico does not seem as poor anymore.
Thank you for your kind words!
Integralist Gail Hochachka’s research paper titled “On Matryoshkas and meaning-making: Understanding the Plasticity of Climate Change” has been published in the prestigious “theoretically and empirically rigorous” international journal Global Environmental Change. Matryoshkas are the nested Russian dolls, which she uses as her analytical framework, and as a metaphor for holarchy. She uses a modified version of Terri O’Fallon’s STAGES assessment, and applies it to a case study of local perspectives on climate change in El Salvador.
‘Plasticity’ refers to the different meanings and perspectives people bring to the issue of climate change. Perspective-taking capacity is largely missing from the climate change literature, as is addressing human interior realities in general, and this work is a step in addressing that, and more.
The Daily Evolver did an interview with Gail and Terri on this (“Climate Change and Stages”), and you can learn a lot more by reading the really substantive paper at sciencedirect.com.
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many states in the u.s. are now passing bills banning your ‘conspiracy theory’ theory.
https://x.com/toobaffled/status/1891306307380207758
wanna know a ‘conspiracy fact’ about the corona stabbies you most likely took… ?
conspiracy facts generated and sourced from
Dr. Peter McCullough …internist, cardiologist, epidemiologist, a full professor of medicine at Texas A&M College of Medicine in Dallas. Also known for being one of the top five most-published medical researchers in the United States
https://x.com/search?q=Dr%20Peter%20McCullough&src=typeahead_click