Alternate Noosphere/Higher Level - Tangerine?


Thanks Corey. I think what I’m getting is the Integral Theory fully intends to maintain a “philosophical” approach without getting into implementation. Of course everyone will take their Integralism into their workplaces, schools, churches, families, communities, politics.

It’s tough when discussing nuanced and complex terrains when there are multiple definitions - common, common expanded, technical IT.

This is a pretty broad definition for Ethnocentric. Based on Ken’s definition it’s fairly pejorative.

Amber Altitude (Ethnocentric, Mythic)

The amber altitude began about 5,000 years ago, and indicates a worldview that is traditionalist and mythic in nature—and mythic worldviews are almost always held as absolute (this stage of development is often called absolutistic). Instead of “might makes right,” amber ethics are more oriented to the group, but one that extends only to “my” group. Grade school and high school kids usually exhibit amber motivations to “fit in.” Amber ethics help to control the impulsiveness and narcissism of red. Culturally, amber worldviews can be seen in fundamentalism (my God is right no matter what); extreme patriotism (my country is right no matter what); and ethnocentrism (my people are right no matter what).

I get what you mean about Critical Integral Theory being wholly distinct from Critical Race/Gender/Sex/xyz Theories and will expand to include Intersectionality.

I appreciate your time on this and know that it’s often laborious to hash out what we each mean. Thanks!


Just a couple of thoughts.
The world is complex. That’s why we expect our Administration (2M employees) to be assessing both past, current and future changes as well as determining our best course of actions, and when to invoke these actions in order to impact the geopolitical stage.
On Ukraine, to think we “had a matter of hours” isn’t accurate. In the public sphere we knew that russia was amassing an invasion army for months. Our Administration help multiple press conferences signaling that we would do little to defend, and hoped Russia would only take Donbass. The Administration assuredly had extensive knowledge of troop movements, machinations within Belarus, and knowledge of Russian forces moving into Belarus.
But yes, “ignoring” that a Red (how fitting :slight_smile:) force would take Red action, might best be met with response in a language (physical, military) that they would understand.

I don’t think anyone would every confuse “kill some % of people” with Transcendence.


Well that definition (which I think I may have actually written years ago? I can’t quite remember) is looking more at the amber stage as a whole, which includes more qualities than just “ethnocentrism”. But it does include all the adjacent “isms” that come with the Amber stage:

Culturally, amber worldviews can be seen in fundamentalism (my God is right no matter what); extreme patriotism (my country is right no matter what); and ethnocentrism (my people are right no matter what).

Now, when it comes to the Amber stage itself, I generally try to maintain a healthy appreciation for both its positive and negative qualities. Yes, unchecked Amber can quickly become pathological (as can all these stages), which is when we start seeing the worst extremes of fundamentalism, ethnocentrism, etc. And yes, the amber stage is also the very foundation of civilization itself, and the only stage that can properly put our Red impulses into check. Which means we want to help support the healthiest possible expressions of the amber stage, while also working to align our governing structures and social centers of gravity with more worldcentric stages.

I think many/most of history’s greatest tragedies grow in the gaps between mismatched interpretations, so yes, this is an important step I think.


I think that Integral Theory will, and in many ways already is, maturing toward what you call “implementation”. But no group is a monolith, so I can only speak to the question, “what is mine to do?” Or, in regard to Integral Life, “what is ours to do?”

So I am reluctant to speak to what integral theory in general “wants” to do, because that is largely left up to the gods of self-organizing social autopoiesis :wink:

As for me, considering that I personally do not exert a whole lot of political influence, nor does this community as a whole, I figure that the best way for me to continue serving this unfolding as I have for the last 20 years is to simply continue having conversations like these, and to help create structures where like-minded and like-hearted people can find each other, resonate with these beautiful emerging ideas, and then find a way to implement them in their own lives, relationships, and work in the world. It’s the only way I know how to help bring us closer to whatever “tipping point” may be on the horizon, and helps me bring just a little bit more meaning to my own life story :slight_smile:


What I mean when I said “We”, I was not referring to Government. You and I had a few hours to decide where we stood on the issue before we discussed it with another person. Most of the population was completely unaware of the Russia / Ukraine issue and were suprised and shocked by the invasion but decided within hours how they felt about it


I always find those first few hours after a story drops to be fascinating, as people only have their own unmediated responses rather than the frames and talking points that are then handed down to them through the media. And unsurprisingly, this is when we tend to find the most overlap between those perspectives, because the machine has not yet had the opportunity to use the story as yet another political wedge. Then, within just a few days or so, it’s back to the usual finger pointing and tribal gamesmanship. I wish we could stretch those first few hours some more, before the brain-hacking begins in full force.

We saw the same just a couple days ago with the Smith/Rock story. I tend to find those initial raw reactions much more interesting, and MUCH more revealing, than the processed and pre-chewed takes that we then find ourselves surrounded by. It’s nexus-agency in action, and it’s always fascinating to watch.


The Hoover Institute was covering the Russian moves quite extensively pre-invasion, as well as overall American foreign policy signalling impacts on various geopolitical scenarios. Very multi-systematic. High on the metamoderna MHC.


I never did see the big deal about Will Smith[quote=“FermentedAgave, post:107, topic:21674, full:true”]
The Hoover Institute was covering the Russian moves quite extensively pre-invasion, as well as overall American foreign policy signalling impacts on various geopolitical scenarios. Very multi-systematic. High on the metamoderna MHC.

I wonder what % of the population follows the Hover Institute?
I’d say .001%?
In my opinion 99.99% of the population had no idea what was going on in Ukraine since 1989 until Russia launched the invasion.


Down to the specific day of the Invasion, it was unclear. The “Right Wing” media was covering in detail the troop build-up, Belarus movements, geopolitical implications, and White House signaling. It was “no surprise”.
Same on the Mexican border with the ending of Title 42. We’ve already had 1 MILLION illegal crossing this year and it’s early April. It’s intentional policy from the White House, in violation of US Law.


Yikes. I guess that makes Tucker Carlson’s whole “I support Russia” thing just a few days before the invasion that much more deplorable.


Youre so cute when you parrot escalatory bullshit. Lol

There is a fair amount of good multi-systemic multi-domain coverage once you pop out of the Social victimhood bubble.


Just saying, the stated excuse given for the later walkback was “we had no way of knowing Putin would actually do something like this”.

Youre so cute when you parrot escalatory bullshit.

LOL. Was this you?

As we are seeing unfold with the Biden Family, Democratic party, and mainstream media we could very well be seeing the worst corruption and intentional Mass Disinformation campaign in the history of humanity.


This was well covered in the Right Wing media prior to Putin invading. I do agree that the Democrats always lead with a “derp, who’d a thought that might happen”.

Interesting turn by the Republicans. They are starting to associate Obama with the Biden corruption, likely to weaken a 2024 candidacy for Michelle Obama.


On the Right, response has been immediate and seemingly sustained. I would characterize as;

  • It’s standard bizarre fare in Hollywood
  • Black Privilege
  • Hollywood Star Privilege
  • And of course his emotional foundation is contorted since he’s been publicly cuckolded by his wife.

Personally I feel sorry for Smith having gotten himself into a relationship with someone that has fundamentally different values than he appears to have.

Management of Far Left Hollywood Relativism very simple…

  • Announce that they are getting divorced amicably with a focus on the children
  • Love each other, and will support their children together
  • Apologize again and take a sabbatical to mentally ground himself.
    Smith will be back bigger and better.
    Not quite sure what Jada does to land on both feet.


Agree with whom? Because I don’t think I ever said that. Was that Ray, someone else, or a scarecrow?


Guess I don’t understand what you mean by “stated excuse given for the later walkback”. I assumed you were referring to our current majority government.


We see quite a bit of discussion on “frog in the pot of warm water” scenarios with “it’s not a hot tub, they are BOILING us!” cries. Classic psychological approach to create Fear in order to justify Change.

Setting aside the Emotive responses, are we in an “Economic pot of warming water” designed to implement a grand agenda which itself is based upon another “Existential Crisis”?


Expand your data 30 years back and compare it to average wages. It’s pointless to just look at one year when discussing this. Doing so shows that you are not interested in discussing your own topic in god faith and you are instead just interested in pushing an anti-Biden grudge. The photo of Biden puts a lock on it.


I do have a grudge on what’s been done to our economy, our nation, in the name of a Leftist nootopian vision.

But the specific point is that many have been saying “the economy is awesome!” But hey, I’m sure we each also have our own seat of the pants take on reality.
My 401k and stock has been decimated to the point some rainbow haired gender fluid will have to pry me out of the work force. But some how economics has turned into a zero sum game. Someone has to lose in order for another to prosper, right?


Why are you blaming someone for your poor investments? No one is to blame for what you invested in except yourself and your financial advisor. If you don’t have a financial advisor … well … that’s your fault. They should have had some projections to keep you from losing so much. But you probably didn’t want to pay their 2% fee or whatever. So you saved 2% and lost … whatever.
But that has nothing to do with a gender flud person.
Take responsibiility for your own bad dscisions instead of blaming everyone instead of yourself.

If you didn’t know this then you are a fool. It’s been common knowledge since the 1980’s. It was stated very clearly in several popular movies.

That’s Captialism.

“Gordon Gecko” took your 401k and you want to blame Gen Z? lol