It feels like I’m between worlds. The old is collapsing, the new not quite here.
The darkness often feels impenetrable.
Feels like the old me is dying. It’s not fun.
Wondering what others are experiencing in terms of their spiritual lives. If anyone else feels groundless or without a home?
Thanks.
It’s inevitable and necessary for anyone achieving any kind of real spiritual growth.
Those who never shed who they were, are by definition stagnant, without growth except what is linear and conformist. To transform necessitates losing what was.
It also repeats in different areas of our lives if they transform. Identity relating to age, family, religion, friends, nation, profession, Myers-briggs typology - everything.
Those who never transform out of their teen or young adult years … well, we have a President and a movement of millions of people who never developed past what they identified as in 1987. There is another group that is stuck in social expectations and structures of the 1990’s and 2000’s. What these two groups at opposite ends of the political spectrum have in common is they are stagnant. They don’t transform. Even when they have an awakening, they try to bend it to their existing pov. They don’t seek to become truly transformed by awakening experiences, but instead corrupt the awakening to serve their ego and make sense according to their current being.
Eventually, we will all die. That is a 100% certainty - and we have no idea what we will transform into after that. Anyone who says they know what to expect is completely off the mark. A caterpillar cannot conceive that it would ever develope into a butterfly, nor a maggot that it will one day be a dung fly.
That’s where I start. The inevitably of death gives us the choice to spiral into depression and see it as a terrible thing to fear. It also gives us the opportunity if we choose to take it to see it as just another transformation, and that transformations are prefereable to stagnation. We can choose to look at those who are stagant while living and see that is true death.
I know how you feel, Kelley, because I’ve been through something similar this past year and I still don’t even know if whatever this is has actually ended.
In my case, it started about a year and a half ago when I definitely stopped seeing any real meaning in pretty much everything that was happening in my life.
I began taking spiritual practice and study more seriously, especially with the help of the Spiritual Exercises of Saint Ignatius of Loyola and a spiritual director. The “dark night of the soul” didn’t go away, it actually deepened.
Some time later, as of today, I’d say I’ve lost almost everything that was tied to my former identity — from ambitions and career goals to even my last relationship — and I’m not sure a new one has “formed” yet. If that’s even supposed to happen.
I’m not sad or depressed right now, though I’ve definitely been through some deep phases of both. Traditional therapy helped me a lot in processing those emotions.
Now I just try to take one day at a time.
I read and learn (like I’m doing here, since I just arrived) but without obsessing over the study, the process, when I’ll get out of the tunnel, or anything else.
Whatever happens, I hope you’re able to move through this time with as much strength as possible and I truly wish you find joy not only at the end of the road but also along the way.
Thank you.
Yes, there has been much loss. A lot of lessons learned from relationships falling apart that seemed to happen out of nowhere. Long stretches of feeling dry and dead on the inside.
It doesn’t make any sense to me, but I don’t think it’s supposed to. I still run through my daily routine, pray a lot, meditate and contemplate a lot, because it seems to be the only thing I can do.
There are times I get paranoid and think people really hate me. Maybe it’s karma burning up. Feels like relationships are always in flux, people either really loving my presence, and then starting to loathe seeing me. Very depressing.
Depression is always there. Racing thoughts when I’m trying to get away from the awful feelings coming up.
Anyway, that’s what I’ve got so far. Thanks ddguezmartin.
Have you tried leaning on any kind of therapy to help you manage the emotions?
For me, starting therapy felt like having something somewhat solid to hold on to while the rest of my world was shifting.
And I started becoming more aware and even enjoying (at times) the process of “disidentification”, for lack of a better word.
Yes, many, many types of therapy. Ketamine, ECT, talk, emdr. You name it, I’ve probably tried it.
Did any particular one help you, or did none of them seem to make a difference?
I’m by no means an expert on the subject, but if you feel like sharing, I’d love to learn how you’ve been trying to navigate all of this — because I know it’s not easy.
There have been pockets of help from certain therapies. Ketamine was really helpful, but I developed a dependency on it and had to stop.
What about you? Where are you at on your spiritual quest right now?
Thanks, Kelley 
In my case, I’m still interested in Christianity (especially from the Ignatian perspective), but I’d say in a less experiential and more intellectual way.
As for direct experience, I’ve been exploring the Gateway Experience from The Monroe Institute for a while now, along with Tom Campbell’s work, My Big TOE.
Both of these paths end up “forcing” me to look into other schools, methods, or traditions in search of more context.
And that’s precisely what brought me here: trying to integrate the information that keeps coming to me with what I already know—or think I know.
That’s where I am right now, also relying on therapy to, as I mentioned before, have some solid ground that keeps me from going too far into depersonalization.
What have you learned from the gateway experience?
What holes are they not filling that you need more information?
I too struggle with depersonalization or dissociation, especially when I’m in stressful or confusing situations. I just leave my body. That’s why I was getting dependant on ketamine. It’s a dissociative and makes me feel like I’m already enlightened. Unfortunately it eventually has to wear off, and back into this world I must go - something I’m not really wanting to do most of the time. I definitely prefer “God”/formless-absolute-truth to the world of form and relative-truth, or as the Buddhists call it, The One as opposed to The Many.
Final question: what do you mean by intellectually as opposed to experientially?
Thanks!
I’ve only been exploring the audios for a short time (8–9 months), but I’m beginning to understand that there’s a non-physical reality—just as real as this one—that we can access… as we learn to let go of our fears and the turbulence of our minds.
Since the Gateway Experience isn’t a doctrine, or a tradition, and doesn’t have any kind of academic body, I’d say that rather than turning to other sources to “fill in the gaps,” what I actually do is consult conventional traditions to match what I’m experiencing with the metaphors they use.
What I’ve learned about my episodes of depersonalization comes down to two things:
First, they happen when I don’t ground myself enough in the physical world (I neglect my responsibilities, cut off social contact…) and/or when I get into a phase of spending too much time studying or thinking “on the other side.”
The second thing I’ve learned is that I tend to dissociate when I feel emotions I don’t know how to handle.
This has been happening all my life. I’ve now realized that what I used to call “lack of attention” or “being in the clouds” was actually my mind protecting itself from what was happening in my body. Now I’m much more present and connected with my body: when an emotion shows up, I don’t run away from it—I allow myself to feel it without trying to control it.
That last part has been one of the most revealing aspects of this whole journey, even if it might seem like a small thing.
As for Christianity, I mean that I study it out of curiosity now—as a subject or discipline—but I no longer practice it as a spiritual path the way I used to.
Thanks to you
Yes, exactly. I do the same when under pressure. Thank you for sharing. Good luck for the rest of your journey
I wish you the same, Kelley.
Thanks for asking me about my experiences