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Kegan “in over our heads” - pp38

Frame - I’m reading up on what might be termed “epistemic projection” - where we might feel that a person/individual is perceived “not doing it right” (stubborn, inability, illness) which can invoke a range of responses (from pity to hostility)… where the individual is “unable to come through for us”.

Advocacy - I’ve been musing on the thread here - specifically the spirited interactions with Casper (the friendly Ghost in the machine :hugs:)… Could it be that we carry normative assumptions about what “construct aware” or “ego aware” look like culturally?

Illustrate - what is considered humorous and serious, what is a worrying sign?image

Inquiry - going forwards… how do we move from disappointment/complaint to requests (?) [how do we cope with relative truth and complete emptiness…?]

“Teaching is not done by talking [writing] alone. It is done by how (!) you live your life. My life is my teaching. My life is my message. [what else could it be?]” TNH


Perfect poem. @timgreenwood First verse invites the reader to the problem or topic. It is a clue, but it is not. That is the targetting sentence, repeated as a title of a poem. ‘Look again, if you lost attention.’ So the first comment of such topic is wisely reminded in the beginning. Someone might too fast jump to conslusions. Easiest interpretation there is: that girl is a mother or a feminine relative as close as mother. She cannot comprehend that the reflections define her and her interiority - body does not express her at all. Or the understanding of mirrors tells her, she could do better ‘all of it’. Recreate it all, set a new

Tormented and lost and defiled

I love those words. ‘Torment’ is very uncommon, ‘lost’ abused and lost people are everywhere out there, but they don’t really use it, if they are truly lost, ‘defiled’ is perhaps an euphenism for a word ‘rape’. If an author uses those three in one verse and it is followed by

too many times.

It means, in the context of the first verse of four paragraphs, the heaviness of being that girl and being closely related and responsible for her is a heavy duty. Most probably, after some time when this girl became woman and now she is a senior, a spilled milk or water on a floor is a ‘rape’ or being ‘defiled’. I wonder what were the true examples of experience for usage of such words. They could be almost nothing, but they were too heavy, since the environment and life context must have been ‘not nice’ (*).

She’s an angry machine, unable to reason.

Reasoning hits back a person, when reason must conclude and terminate many mirrors/options. Anger arises and objective sensitiveness (might be an obligation from the very beginning of life of anyone), so the person is entangled in paradox of demand/expectation and that drives the rhythm of the word ‘torment’ used, according to the little girl. And the whole life of this girl, since poems are not pure creativity. There is always a real source of creative result. Or just a pinpoint of being of a person that creates.

Nobody knows where.

She knows. Other people receive the outcome of her being or just her as she is alive.

Don’t expect any sympathy for she has none to spare.
Don’t expect grace for she will kill you on sight.
This little girl has memory to spare and the mind of a shark.
Stone cold and violent, she is coming for you.

That’s a story, I guess, of the anger and rationality again. The ‘shark’ is on the opposite side of ‘grace’ and ‘sympathy’, just because she needs it. So the ‘entaglement’ must be of some sort just endless. That is more than a simple drama, that might be the thorn in soul for life.

There is a little girl in this house.
I don’t know her name.
She is here to kill me and I cannot recall why.
I’ve given up hope, reason, and have no last request.
I’m hungry and lonely and starting to cry.
Why won’t she care? What more can I do?
She is standing in front of me with an unmoving eye.

I might have wrote that earlier, but this is a relation of, maybe, no ending. This bondage cannot be just cut as it is. But it could be also all the way around - just the feminine part of the author towards the father or something similar.

(last paragraph)

Yeah, that is a mother. A good spell wrote after her death.

It is not a comment, just maybe a deconstruction of your poem.
Perfect one. I will save it in google notes so is always in my phone. :slight_smile: :woman_astronaut: :walking_man:


Okay - so we arrive at a topic that is close to my (Really Real) research interests…

Mothers and Spells… (from bitchin’ to Be-witchin’ :wink:)

So - this is my “leading edge” as of now… and I don’t know of a better woman than to frame where I am pondering right now (today)…

A Practice?? (for people without 17 minutes to spare)
If something happens “out there” - in the large group… and it disturbs members of my small group…

  1. Work with complications (don’t avoid them)
  2. Confront them (work with them - [改善] - Q: what do they mean? Q: how are they impacting people?)
  3. Use the “here and now” as a guide (Q: is it in my group? Is it in my members minds this morning? Is it still alive? [anxiety/behaviour impacts] … then… it is in!!)

any way - just one perspective of many… and yet for me - group relations seems strangely alive right now… we are all homo ridens (in the final analysis) - right? blah blah blah (:zipper_mouth_face:)


Hi Timgreenwood

Your paper and threads are too lengthy for me to read. But I want to answer one of your question regarding " Why isn’t Integral Philosophy a larger force in the world? "

Basically because most of the people empowered with such vision is not working on the real world directing people, the economy, social groups, in politics, etc. So, if you want to be at academia, is ok, it is a good service to mankind. But you need to try your integral capacity with normal people, with day to day affairs. I understand you are young and you are still learning. So, try to pass your PhD tests, the best you can. But your real trial is on life.

Neither Pythagoras, Socrates or Plato were just writers or teachers. The three of them are key founders of classical philosophy and the three risked their life more than once putting into practice their ideas. Plato was taken prisoner for instance by the Syracuse Tyrane, as he applied a test to check if his government officers were capable of ruling the country. The outcome didn’t like to the Tyranne and Plato was imprisoned and sold on auction as slave. Fortunately his friends gathered the money and bought him. So, we have to thank those Greek citizens for loving so much philosophy and rescued Plato for us !!! Otherwise he would had been just a the teacher of the kids of a wealthy family !!!

So, friends of Plato practiced and integral philosophy engaging in real troubles, like Plato himself did.

So, young fellow chase philosophy as your lover, every day, into an integral life, not just an on integral academy. So pass your examinations the best you can, and get into real life challenges soon.

Kind regards