Information Warfare Education, Propaganda, and How to Tell the Difference

Town Square
628

I have the analogy in my mind that everyone at some point discovers their parents are flawed human beings. Other people realize the ideologies that they were taught as children are flawed.

Unfortunately, when teenagers realize this about their parents - they often make even worse decisions. Their parents are stupid, so everything they ever said is wrong - and then we suddenly have a teenage drug addict.
Similarly, a little boy may discover Santa Cause and Christmas miracles are a lie and as a result become Mr. Scrooge, giving everyone a hearty Bah Humbug during the Christmas season.

So yes, progressivism, hippies, counterculture, LSD and “Make Peace not War” were all necessary for a period of time when the US was carpet bombing naked children with Napalm for essentially no sensible reason except fear they would become Communist. America also had to come to terms with the Hypocrisy of “Liberty and Justice for all” - (except Asians, Blacks and Hispanics). And a whole stream of other skeletons in the collective closet.
Yes, there are more skeletons in that closet to be dug out. It’s still actually pretty full and we’ve only seen the ones that fell out when we opened the door. We have yet to actually go into that closet as a society or shine a light into it. Whenever anyone tries, the others turn away or try to cover the light. “How dare black basketball players take a knee and express their opinion in front of me! I paid good money for tickets and don’t want to see anyone’s opinion about racism.” - and similar.

The Liberalism of the 1960’s to 1990’s had a purpose that had to be addressed sooner or later. Some of it needs to now change direction, but some of it has only scratched the surface.
An example is cancel culture, which is a shadow of Green that the right has fully embraced many times more than the left ever did, but also adds physical violence to the methods used by cancel culture. Liberals get people cancelled for things that really actually don’t matter to society in the big scheme of things. Is anyone really harmed if a millionaire actor makes fewer millions because they didn’t get a role in some blockbuster movie about Mutant superheroes - or whatever? No. But is cancel culture healthy - also no, particularly when violence is added into the mix.

629

Have you discovered that within yourself?

630

All the time, yes.

My post has to be 20 characters so I have to type a few more words.

1 Like
631

Maybe talk less about defending your point of view and more about how your fixing yours?

632

Why would I do that here? As it is now, this is a terrible container for any kind of real self analysis.

633

Coincidentally, I made a reply to this post about 5 minutes before you mentioned me, lol

634

I read that and found it lacking in the overall topic of your assessment of @FermentedAgave … He is pretty much alone in his conservative opinions here. I for one do find his posts “… stimulate thought, though they probably do stimulate emotions in many people” I do see mostly emotional replies and rebuttals; rather that ignoring him perhaps some people here find him and his opinion as a threat?

635

Maybe some people do, sure.
You’d have to be kind of blind to believe I have ignored him.

I don’t even frame this in a Liberal vs Conservative framework. It’s unfortunate that some people are limited to that binary false choice.

As I said, this is a terrible container for self analysis, and you exactly show why.

The idea that you might think I actually care what you think of how I look inward towards myself is kind of funny to me.
I was engaging Brian in a discussion that I thought might be of mutual interest to the two of us. I don’t really care anything about your analysis of it. It was just a coincidence, that’s all.

To be honest, I don’t actually care what your opinion is on any subject really.

636

Thanks for that integral sharing. I still love you @raybennett :slight_smile:

1 Like
637

but back onto the topic of How to tell the difference between education and propaganda, we have this insightful gem:

638

Exposure of the Media collusion with Leftist/Democratic powers in order to sow disinformation isn’t really surprising but is seemingly going to lead to some level of accountability. CNN “set the standard” with 100Ms falling into lock step.

While the media/Leftist collusion itself is basic power dominance (and greed) seen with every Marxist/Fascist movement, how will the individuals caught up in the zealous attacks on their fellow citizens come to terms with their actions as individuals and collectively as a culture.
How can the Right ever forgive the domination and attempted destruction of our society? And what steps should be taken to insure this never happens again?

639

Continuing the same topic, from the right-leaning National Review:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/01/trump-admits-he-wanted-pence-to-overturn-the-election/

To echo Agave’s concerns, how can reasonable people ever forgive the domination and attempted overthrow of our democratic society? What steps should be taken to ensure this never happens again?

640

And this, of course, was the larger context for the violence of January 6th — the first non-peaceful transfer of power in modern American history — and what elevates it to “insurrection” instead of merely a riot. It was just one leg of the larger plan (conveniently summarized in the power point presentation they reviewed in the Oval Office on January 5th).

  1. Falsely claim the Democrats stole the election, and have your right wing media machine endlessly repeat those claims (remember, Sean Hannity and Lou Dobs actually took part in many official Oval Office meetings.).

  2. Flood the zone with bogus lawsuits based on these lies, knowing it will take many months for those cases to be heard and decided in court. (It’s not about winning the lawsuits, virtually all of which were dismissed; it’s about manufacturing consent.)

  3. Organize a public riot at the Capitol building based on false accusations of stolen election. This serves two purposes — disrupt/delay the final official tallying of electoral ballots, and create a false perception of legitimacy (again, manufacturing consent) for the final move:

  4. Make Vice President Pence reject official electors from certain states, and instead recognize the fake electors that Guiliani, Trump, and GOP officials illegally manufactured.

Fortunately, Pence consulted with Dan Quayle (of all people), who convinced Pence not to go along with Trump’s illegal scheme to overthrow the election. Pence himself said just a few days ago:

“President Trump is wrong, I had no right to overturn the election.”

And this, of course, is why the January 6 idiots were shouting “Hang Mike Pence” and constructing gallows with his name on them. Because the plan was falling apart without him. Pence was the only reason they were at the Capitol in the first place.

Thank God for Mike Pence. Hero of the nation?

641

A leftist meltdown of hypocrisy and scandal - Democrats exposed as rank hypocrites, grifters, not-so closeted Marxists

Since you don’t have a “mandate” to destroy the US as we know it, how about some common sense recommendations?
https://talbotspy.org/some-advice-for-my-fellow-democrats-by-al-from/

642

Beautiful projection.

The very fact that you need to come onto this forum and try to convince yourself (you aren’t convincing anyone else, lol) shows just how deeply you want to try and hide your own meltdown of hypocrisy from yourself.
You are a cognitive mess.
Here is some info that may address some of the issues you are having:

image
image1738×1243 350 KB

643

Facts vs Propaganda / Opinion:
Here are some facts
The Republican Party supports what was a criminal attempt to overturn a legal election.
It is a fact that 769 people have been charged with crimes for their involvement in this criminal activity, and the Republican Party supports them and also Trump’s many other extralegal activities, which are also documented fact that could take up several pages to post them all.


This isn’t “propaganda” - these crimes were investigated by an FBI after 4 years under Trumps control. In other words, this was “Trump’s FBI” who started these investigations. It was a month before Biden could even start to look at it.
Another fact - Trump is the defendant in 19 legal cases, at least half of which are his former associates (Republicans not Democrats). This isn’t propaganda, but the “Rule of Law” working as intended and as used by Trump himself over the years.

It is just factual that the people suing him had to have at least some reasonable basis for their lawsuits, or the courts would have thrown them out. Which, we have seen done with the completely baseless claims of Republicans over the election - thrown out of court due to complete lack of any evidence whatsoever and their frivolous nature.
Speaking of which, we have 8 close Trump associates arrested and / or convicted of crimes. Again, these are facts, not propaganda. Eight of Trumps closest associates and advisors were arrested and / or convicted of crimes.

Speaking of Associates, here are some more facts (not propaganda) about the sanctions Sydney Powel is facing for her complete incompetence as a lawyer in trying to overturn the election. These are actual cases going forward in a court of law, based on facts and evidence:

Then we have the fact that Guliani was so incompetent and grossly negligent in his attempt to do Trumps bidding that he had his license to practice law revoked. That’s a fact. Also fact is that Dominion is suing Guliani, Powel and Lindel. Again, in order to move forward Dominion had to have at least a reasonable basis upon which to stand - or they would have been tossed out or sanctioned for incompetence as Guliani and Powel were.
Here are some other Trump Bad actors who are facing legal action. Again - facts that establish a reasonable basis for lawsuits to continue.

Against all these actual fact-based legal cases, all this bullshit @FermentedAgave is projecting onto “leftists” as having a “meltdown” is so transparent I’m actually embarrassed for you.

Name three people in Biden’s administration or who closely advise him, who have been investigated or convicted of Federal Crimes. I have listed more than a dozen of Trumps closest advisors and people he even actually appointed to government office who have been actually convicted in courts of law. If you can find even 30% for Biden, you might actually have a point. I’d be impressed if you can even find one convicted criminal in Biden’s advisory circle, lol.

1 Like
644

Also, my third post is just to post a grid of the actual facts and data.
CNN has not “collapsed”, lol. That is just 100% right wing media hype.

The facts are that CNN viewership is about what it was in 2015. CNN and other news outlets get a boost in ratings during periods of crisis, and the entire Trump administration was one big 5 year crisis that people wanted to be updated on - culminating in his gross incompetence in handling the COVID crisis and his criminal attempt to illegally overturn the election and overthrow the legitimately elected government.

So again, see the graph for the actual facts and numbers rather than the spin of whatever professional entertainers are saying on FOX news.

image
image700×500 118 KB

645

This article is a great example of propaganda, thanks for bringing it into this thread. It is a hyper partisan op-ed packed with half-truths and false equivalences. Of course it’s from the Washington Times, that is their bread and butter!

My favorite part was when they called CNN “full government propaganda” when it was Sean Hannity and Lou Dobbs who were literally invited to White House meetings in the Oval Office. Always accuse your enemy of what you are actively doing.

I also like when they try to make a big deal about Biden nominating a black woman to the Supreme Court, when Trump himself stated he would deliberately nominate a woman for his pick, and when even Saint Reagan announced he would deliberately nominate a Jewish American to the court. Identity politics for me, but not for thee!

646

Just as interesting a first, for America, is that this was the first stolen election. Might the two firsts be somehow connected? Just sayin’. At the heart of the madness into which the world is now spiraling was the stealing of the election by a Deep Swamp oligarchy fronted by their stumbling, mumbling puppet with dementia, doing their bidding. The world has never seen anything like this.

Jan 6 wasn’t insurrection. It was civil disobedience, and that’s all it was. Now, given that many people are confident, as I am, that the election was stolen, surely that’s exactly the kind of thing that Thoreau had in mind, in his formulation of the concept of civil disobedience. Civil Disobedience espouses the need to prioritize one’s conscience over the dictates of laws. The election was stolen, and good conscience was behind the Jan 6 commotion. Your insinuation, Corey, that Jan 6 was a heinous, unprecedented historical event overlooks the fact that the stealing of the election was itself a heinous, unprecedented historical event. And in accordance with Thoreau’s thesis, it became incumbent on every American who saw it that way, to make their presence felt.

Bogus lawsuits? Republicans have become cowards who run in fear of being called mean names, so maybe the threats of Antifa/BLM riots and national unrest might have had something to do with the way things played out at the level of SCOTUS and their dismissal of cases as being without standing. How does that work? How is it that a voter in Texas should have no interest in whether or not elections are run fairly in other states? Voters who see their votes being stolen in other states must surely have standing, by definition… because their votes for a single national POTUS are being compromised. It’s not rocket-science. Something here stinks to high heaven.

You said earlier that the onus is on me to prove my extraordinary claim that the election was stolen. I return the suggestion that the onus is on you to prove your extraordinary claim that, despite the evidence all around us, our cultures are still viable, requiring our full complicity and obedience. For the reality is that our cultures are unravelling. We can no longer count on our institutions, infrastructures and courts to do what we relied on them to do in the past. We’ve entered a new phase where what worked in the past no longer applies. This is The Great Unravelling. Everybody is a clown now. Bigots masquerading as anti-bigots, sexists masquerading as anti-sexists, authoritarians masquerading as liberals, frauds, cowards and opportunists around every corner. There is no unclowning of Clown Culture.

Civil disobedience has played an integral role in American culture and history. It has played an integral role in the acquisition of power by the Left. And now that they have it, they don’t want to lose it. They no longer care for democratic values, it seems. That’s why the American Left is good with violence by Antifa/BLM but get all high and mighty when even a murmur of discontent comes from the “nazi” conservatives.

Civil disobedience: Celebrated as the voice of the people when the Left do it, insurrection when it’s anyone else.

The once defenders of free speech have become the new censors and authoritarians. Go against the grain, and they’ll shut you down quicker than you can say “Neil Young was just a hippie dream”. How quickly their calls for peace and tolerance evaporate when confronted with beliefs that differ to their own.

647

Just a reminder that Mr Durham’s probe into the Clinton Campaign, Obama DOJ/FBI activities, and subsequent “Russiagate” activities is still well under way. And most of Obama’s cronies are staffing positions in today’s Administration.