Information Warfare Education, Propaganda, and How to Tell the Difference

Town Square
503

Oh, yes - I myself commit a few crimes on an approximately annual basis. Is smoking a bit of the devils weed and cheating on my taxes (yes, it is a federal crime) being reported by the media? No, of course not. Not because of any kind of media conspiracy to not report it - it’s just a nonstory. Nobody cares anymore about certain things.
Trump has cognitive issues and Biden is in decline. That’s what starts to happen to people around 60. It’s not even an interesting story on either one.
Let’s say you wanted to tell an interesting story - which would people listen to more - the one about grandpa where he just forgot something - or the one where grandpa forgot something and then started arguing with everyone to try and force them to admit he never forgot anything in his whole life? lol That’s the comparison between Biden and Trump’s mental state. If Biden loses, he will accept defeat - even in the primary. He doesn’t go after anyone and everyone who points out even the most minor missteps he’s had.
The New Oligarchy is the Old Oligarchy and is descended from a long line of puppets. That’s the real world.
I’m surprised you are shocked by the current violence if you are over 30 years old. We had Rodney King’s beatings broadcast to our living rooms and then a few years later Reginald Denny’s. It’s not sane to say one is acceptable and the other isn’t - and it is even less sane to take an insane position that is exactly the same as what we recognize as insanity, but rationalize that it’s ok because “they are doing it”.
I don’t think anyone with a brain on the Left is still supporting Smollet. That really is a straw man. At least once a month I talk on the phone with someone whose idiocy leaves me speechless.

I’m not sure what you mean with the last paragraph. I don’t think the current BLM effort, nor even the savage beating of Reginald Denny was because of name calling. Just as the current problems in white America aren’t because Hillary called them deplorables.

It’s up to you and completely your own “thang” if you want to associate with people who support BLM or not. This is going to be a polarizing decision people will make moving forward. “I do not want to associate with you because you support X, so therefore I will support -X.” This kind of dialogue will only have a negative outcome. Never in history has that kind of approach led to an amicable mutually beneficial outcome. It’s the us vs them with a zero sum. You only win if I lose, and vice versa.

Logically, the only way this will come out is in direct conflict. With this set as the positions of the respective parties, it will only escalate further. Regardless of who is “right” and “wrong” - the formation of the position defined as “against X” cannot end in any way except violence.
Yes - BLM is “Against the System”. Because the system does actually dehumanize them. If you establish yourself as the system that they are against rather than some other position - yes it will end in conflict with you against them and the degree to which you choose to participate will determine how traumatic it will be for you.

504

Would a return to good old Orange Law and Order with our high velocity racial equality progress be insufficient? I know it’s tough the generational inequities making the developmental climb “unfairly” difficult. Affirmative Action was an attempt to help flatten the curve. But it’s still a hell of a gut check to own that perhaps our internal dialogs - self created, inherited or externally fueled - are what creates our world (uh oh, sounding like @excecutive or even @raybennett). That’s a very difficult even with proper familial and societal support and discipline.
Is there any other way for sustainable societal development other than everyone climbing their hill that’s in front of them? Are there really any short cuts?

The Right, which is seemingly growing, sees CRT and UBI as demolition of our culture so compromising doesn’t seem to be in the cards.

Is there no way to incorporate the fragments of society including BLM and Antifa into the escalator of progress that we’ve enjoyed here in the Western societies?

If not, do you think BLM and Antifa are organized enough to “take the fight” outside deep blue metro centers? Do they have the fortitude as an example to make it to your bugout camp? To my above average burb filled with fairly strong willed residents? To Coreys Integral oasis removed from the fray.

I’m not much into Apocalypse Prepping but am probably half way prepped as is.
Do we have until end of 2022 before SHTF?
How fast should we be buying ammo, canned food and water filtration systems?

Am I reading it right that you see it foregone that Anarchists will topple the US and assume power?
You don’t see a scenario where the tide of Anarchy is turned back to rule of law?
It sounds like you recommend joining Antifa or BLM now in order to insure some level of safety. Am I reading you correctly?

505

Well I learn something new every day!

506

I am referring to the climate of political correctness and the overwhelming cultural miasma that prohibits calling out bullshit when you see it. Calling those you disagree with nazis or racists, and rolling over for fear of being called a nazi or racist. Bigots masquerading as anti-bigots and shaming with their fake narrative, claiming their fake moral high-ground. Though political correctness precedes the current chaos, it continues to define the “acceptable” conduct that pitchfork-wielding scolds employ to enforce Cancel Culture.

The “system” (i.e., culture) dehumanizes anyone who does not comply with its norms, not just blacks. From the abstract of US Department of Justice (Office of Justice Programs):

Today homicide is the leading cause of death among young Black men, and contributes significantly to the shortened life-span of the Black male. In about 80-90% of the cases, the Black victim was killed by another Black, and about 52% of the murder victims were acquainted with their assailant. Just as we accept that suicide victims are psychologically impaired, we must acknowledge that a murderer is similarly impaired, and Blacks – for both environmental and political reasons – are likely to reflect emotional predispositions that allow them to more readily become a homicide statistic. Projected self-hatred facilitates blind rage and gives the perpetrator of the violent attack a sense of legitimacy and justification.

Victim culture, under the narrative of political correctness, stifles personal agency. Agency relates to the insight that we are responsible for the choices we make. It does not pay to constantly blame “the system”. The “system” can only do so much, and personal agency (i.e., taking responsibility for the choices you make) is required to close the circle. From the same article, the abstract continues, in the spirit of political correctness:

In addition, Blacks have been indoctrinated by a criminal justice system which places higher value on a white life than on a Black life. While psychological study of homicide offenders and victims is difficult and not easily quantifiable, it is important to explore such variables in Black community violence. Programs focused on crime and violence prevention, therefore, must do more than alleviate socioeconomic ills in the the Black community. They must pay attention as well to negative psychological dynamics in the Black experience that contribute to internecine victimization. The Black community in particular is in dire need of homicide prevention centers with programs of prevention, research and treatment. (Author abstract)

Here’s an idea. How about teaching blacks that it’s wrong to kill? Just a thought. I know many people, self included, who, despite having grown up in dysfunctional households have nonetheless managed to go on and not murder a single person… ever. Remarkable, but true. Thus is the power of agency.

Nobody is forcing anyone to kick his neighbor’s head in. Any lowlife that does so, regardless of the color of his skin, is doing so of his own free will and volition. This is not the system’s responsibility. There comes a point where you need to hold every individual to account for their own agency, I don’t care what color their skin is. Blacks are dehumanizing themselves, and only by their agency, not the system’s, can their systemic violence be properly addressed. Black agency, not “the system”, is responsible for this:

In about 80-90% of the cases, the Black victim was killed by another Black

Blacks are dehumanizing themselves. Black-on-black violence is not “the system’s” responsibility. Perhaps BLM should try telling their own that black lives matter.

507

https://unherd.com/2021/12/will-california-ever-be-safe-again/

508

As a man who socializes almost exclusively with those who support racial justice and gender equality, nobody prohibits me from calling out anything, lol. If you have strong enough convictions, courage, and express them with respect then I find really there really are no limitations. However, if you lack a desire to be respectful that is a hurdle to overcome. Or what I observe is more the case, there is a lack of courage to stand firmly on deep rooted beliefs in the face of criticism.
And yes, there are consequences to expressing deeply held beliefs. Just as an example, if you firmly believe man should be the “master of the house” as in the tradition I was raised in - well, you better actually be a “Master” or things might get worse. Your options will also be slimmer if even if you are indeed a powerful “Master” type. I have few friends who are quite liberal and the man “wears the pants”. One of them does that secret secret military stuff. A “Master wannabe”’ will have even slimmer options if he is not actually fit for the task and can’t maintain his internal beliefs in when confronted couple of angry women, but instead gets hurt and dragged into a victim-persecutor dynamic with them.

I don’t see this as a reason to be against BLM, honestly. It makes less sense to set up a binary “only two sides” conflict where you then side with the system that dehumanizes you. There are several options here, but what we see is people who identify as the right have chosen the one that makes the least sense.

Victim culture under the guise of anti-persecutor / anti-victim narrative also stifles agency. You haven’t taken on a liberating cause, but instead have boxed yourself into an unhealthy victim-persecutor-victim-persecutor endless loop. This isn’t agency. BLM acts, you react. The police act against BLM, they react against the police, you react to BLM. It doesn’t matter how long the chain is - you give up your agency.

They are predominantly Christian, and have been taught this. My point would be that is a method that has tried and doesn’t work. Also, it would help if you also teach society as a whole that it’s wrong to kill, not just blacks. The problem here is society and the system talks out of two sides of its face at the same time. It’s wrong to kill, but the most precious freedom is the right to have weapons designed to kill. It’s an insanity so deeply baked into our culture that an alien looking at our nation from space wouldn’t be at all surprised at the escalating breakdown.

But all this talk about blacks and BLM is just a red herring. The rot cause is that you have given up your agency. Whether it’s feminists or BLM, you are against groups of people and believe that will give you back your agency, when it just won’t.
That’s the whole root of the issue we have in the US - a return tribalism isn’t going to advance society. It’s going to reverse progress. If 20% of the population was at tribal extremes on a certain date, the situation is worse now and perhaps as many as 20% at both extremes are deeply entrenched in tribalism. The solution isn’t to double down on tribalism and hope in some way you will “win”. lol nobody is going to win on the path the US is headed now.

For myself - I’m just going to stay in the state with the least tribalist trends in the country and accept I might have to learn Chinese before I die. Ultimately, in 100 years everyone on the planet will be Sino-Afro-Dravidian-Latino mix of varying degrees.

509

Left’s Weak or out right Flawed Icons are disappearing like free Cocaine at a DNC loss party.

https://amgreatness.com/2021/12/12/cracked-icons/

image

510

Ooh, do Duggar now! Convicted the same day as Smollett :rofl:

1 Like
511

Only if you are in the “barely passing” demographic.
An example was law school admissions when I took the LSAT around 1995. Yes, there were a small percentage of minorities getting into Law Schools with very low scores. All this meant is that in order for me to get in, I could not be “borderline” or just scraping through by luck. Honestly, I would neither want to hire a Lawyer who barely got through law school nor one who got in from affirmative action.
The point being - don’t be in the “barely passing” demographic and affirmative action will never affect you.

You are still missing the point that your burb is filled with people who are armed and basically want to strike out at anything they can. If you are closest it will be you. I don’t think you understand quite how chaos or a breakdown of law and order will work.

Anarchists don’t assume power, lol. In fact Bernie and Trump supporters are slightly anarchists, but just don’t identify as such. There is an element of tearing everything down in people who supported Bernie then jumped over to Trump’s camp. These are the people you really need to watch - because you think they “got your back” when they are in fact emotionally unbalanced.

No, you are completely not reading me correctly. You seem to be unable to read anything except the dialogue imprinted on your brain by the right wing media.
If I were to recommend anything, I would recommend avoiding polarized communities and polarizing thought processes.

Just for shits and giggles, let’s do two basic prepping questions:
1 - Where do you get your water from? A well? This is only common in older suburbs.
2 - Food is being distributed in a location 10 miles away, but not gasoline. Do you have a means of transporting this food back to your family, or are you dependent on gasoline and will have to carry it all on your back? When was the last time you humped 50 pounds for 10 miles?
Point being - half prepped is basically not prepped.

512

Show me ONE SOURCE where anyone on the left saw him as an Icon.
You really do have nothing except straw men. It really is pitiful that your brain operates at such a low thought capacity.

513

Why, in an integral space, would we reduce the word “system” to the Lower Left? Why would we look at the LL in isolation without also looking at correlating and reinforcing factors in the other quadrants? It seems like a purposely narrow analysis that is done to emphasize certain problems and de-emphasize other problems.

Everywhere on the planet, poverty attracts crime. And everywhere on the planet, inescapable poverty brings gang warfare. This is not a “black” issue, or a “white” issue, or a “hispanic” issue, it’s a class issue. Gang violence diminishes as opportunity for economic mobility increases. Violence decreases as community resources increase.

Here’s an idea. How about teaching blacks that it’s wrong to kill? Just a thought.

Do you really think they aren’t taught that it’s wrong to kill? And do you really think all black Americans share responsibility for the tiny minority of blacks who commit crimes? This is why the old “13/50” statistics are misleading and biased. 13% of the population is not responsible for 50% of crimes. It’s more like .0001% of the population is responsible for 50% of crimes, and the rest of the 12.9999% are blamed.

Let me put it this way. As far as I understand, most pedophiles are white men. Something like 90% of convicted sexual offenders are white. Do we lay this at the feet of all white people? Clearly white people need to be taught not to rape children, instead of putting child rapists like Josh Duggar on national television. Why are whites always glamorizing their criminals?

Point being, statistics do not exist in a vacuum, cultures do not exist in a vacuum, individuals do not live in a vacuum. If we want to understand where the violence is coming from then we need to look at all the factors in all eight zones, not just one or two. How do things like red lining decades ago continue to impact individuals, families, and culture today? How does a total lack of property ownership and generational wealth that resulted from past oppression affect an entire community’s social mobility? How do decades of discriminatory interpretations of laws (some groups receiving more severe consequences than other groups, for the same crime) affect a community’s sense of standing in the wider culture? How does generational trauma from past oppression contribute to a culture of resentment, and how does that culture of resentment create feedback loops with a person’s self identity and sense of meaning? How does all of this affect individual mindsets and behaviors?

These are the sorts of questions we should be asking as integralists, while extending basic dignity, compassion, and good faith to various groups of people. It does no good whatsoever to claim “black people aren’t being taught that killing is wrong”.

Want to fix our culture? Then let’s fix the life conditions that are perpetuating our cultural conflicts.

514

I’d have a whole lot more time for BLM if they genuinely cared about blacks. They don’t care about blacks. They’re trolling you and everyone else. They’re no different to any of the other bigots masquerading as anti-bigots. For them, it’s a game, they’re just having fun, cops-and-robbers, doing what trolls do. They interpret the world in terms of shaming opportunities. They are frauds, easy to spot if you understand projection. And it is disappointing to see good people falling for their scam.

As for an example of good (gullible, stupid) people falling for the scam, Fermented’s just-posted article is directly relevant (Will California ever be safe? The affluent look away while their cities burn, by Ayaan Hirsi Ali).

So is this… these clown CEOs are now reaping what they’ve sown. But at least they get to feel virtuous and morally superior for 15 minutes of their virtue-signaling, self-indulgent lives:
https://twitter.com/Quicktake/status/1469418057139474433

515

@corey-devos, as per my reply to Ray, if these were movements authentically motivated by the greater good, then I’d have a whole lot more time for them (heck I used to identify with them until I got to see the light). But they’re not. They’re trolls playing a game of make-believe.

516

I think you are missing the point here. Nobody is really asking you to devote time to BLM. If you feel they are trolling you, then mission successful because you are sufficiently trolled and you do actually seem to spend a lot of time on BLM. I’m not the one who keep bringing them up as topics of conversation - you are.
And if we are thinking in the scam mindset, you are completely missing the bait and switch scam. The damsel needs your help, you get into a conflict with the aggressor, damsel makes off with your wallet and you get a black eye. In this case - the right plays the innocent victim. You stand up for the right and get into a fight with nasty women and big bad blacks. The result is you get egg on your face, lose a part of who you are and the right wing media and politicians dance laughing to the bank with your money.
fermented’s article about California is just more of the same scam. Oh, no California is dangerous. Better move to Texas so we can be the ones to cheat you, lol.
It’s one of the oldest scams known to man and far superior because the gullible rubes don’t even realize what happened and go back again to be scammed again and again.

But again - the result is further division and polarization that is being escalated to violence by the manipulators on both sides, and you are amongst the rubes.

517

@raybennett My issue is less with BLM (they are but a blip on the radar) than with the virtue-signaling mugs that fall for their scam.

518

Hey Steljarkos, thanks for continuing to share your views, these conversations are important if we can keep ourselves from getting swept up by emotional reactions to each other’s perspective. So let’s keep going!

I can understand having some suspicion over the top-down intent that is behind some of these groups. However, at the same time, during BLM, MILLIONS of individuals took to the streets, the vast majority of whom were peaceful, in order to bring more awareness to a suite of systemic problems (some real, some exaggerated by social media). Do you think that these millions of people had ill intent? Or do you think that, on average, they believe they are motivated by the greater good? Or do you think that these millions of people are all responsible for the opportunists who are taking advantage at the fringes, or even at the level of “leadership”?

Hell, I even think that Qanon storming the capitol were guided by their own sense of “greater good”, distorted as it was by an endless stream of unsubstantiated conspiracy theories. But the people who are still waiting in the street for the return of JFK Jr. so he can reappoint Trump as President, are doing so because they believe they are motivated by the greater good.

And that’s really the problem, isn’t it? There is no single “greater good”, other than the transcendent sphere of Goodness itself. Instead we have an endless competition of “greater goods” and “lesser evils” that go up and down the spiral and across multiple typologies. Our job as integralists is to find a way to better situate these competing goods and evils so that a sort of meta-goodness can flourish, and so we can relieve the greatest suffering for the greatest number of people (the “integral prime directive”).

519

That’s just the same scam with different players. Doesn’t matter if the setup is BLM or feminists, the bait and switch is the same structure. The right can assign any group in the “aggressor” role - and they do. For example gays want to take away your religious freedom. Vegans won’t let you eat meat without facing their disapproval. Hollywood wants to destroy your childhood icons. All the same bait and switch scam.

520

One word. Culture. It’s their “knowing how to be.” It is very difficult to step beyond one’s culture and see reality as it truly is. Most people believe that they’re for the greater good, but, swept along with their culture, they often become the pitchfork-wielding scolds whom we recognize, from another era, as Puritan fundamentalists.

What we are seeing today is no different to how Germany and “good Germans” were swept along in the tide during the first half of last century.

521

I think many of these folks would argue that they are the ones stepping beyond one’s culture (which they perceive as in many ways still operating on obsolete colonialist code) and making objects out of subjects, inter-subjects, and hyper-objects that people rarely see. And I agree with them! I just don’t agree with their prescriptions and interventions.

Again, this is the problem – multiple groups who believe they have a monopoly on “reality”. But we in integral land know about “the myth of the given” and that there is no single underlying “reality”, and rather that our enactments of “reality” are purely based on our kosmic address (of which our surrounding culture is a part).

“What we are seeing today is no different to how Germany and “good Germans” were swept along in the tide during the first half of last century.”

And of course, many of these folks make the exact same claim about the right, Trumpism, MAGA, Qanon, etc. But I think you just did what you accused the left of doing — comparing people you disagree with to Nazis :wink:

522

Except that I am making the comparison without judgement. I am not condemning anyone as nazis, but merely drawing attention to the fact that we share the same humanity, the same flaws, attributes and predispositions. History repeats, and all that.