Thanks @LaWanna
I LOVE the what I would call Shamanistic trance musics. And it’s awesome that it doesn’t really matter if it’s Mongolian, North American, Amazon, African, Nordic. I hit a 7 minute personal max in my cold pool plunge. LOL
I also think the Hu lyrics of those two songs are a key part of the message. My experience listening is less trancelike and more of a “call to arms”, both internal and external.
One line in particular stands out as a summary of the song Wolf Totem
“If you come with evil intentions, we’ll give you a fight!”
@FermentedAgave Glad you liked it. Shamanism having been birthed reportedly on the Mongolian-Siberian steppes, it is of course shamanic in nature. It is an actual ancestral song of the Mongolians. While it’s invoking the wolf-spirit/totem, if you listen carefully at the beginning and the end, you can hear the Eagle, which is their primary spirit/totem, symbol of freedom and higher perspective.
And it is also, as @raybennett says, a warrior song. Shamanism and warrioring are paired in many cultures throughout the world. The true warrior, say many people including me, is a person of peace and a person who values peace–but they will fight when necessary, for good cause.
Integrally-speaking, the song covers a lot of ground: the red egoic/warrior-tribal stage, the magical stage, the mythic stage (including a sort of Mongolian “nationalism” being represented), and then there’s the rational stage represented by the motorcycles (replacing horses) and the band’s use of technology. We could even say the pre-integral (green, pluralistic) stage is covered in the sense that the band’s name “Hu” means ‘human’ in their Mongolian language. Who knows? Representing so many perspectives, perhaps they are even integral!
And of course there’s that horse-head fiddle, whose sound, to me, really tugs at the heart strings, while the throat-singing is deeeeeeeeeeep, and deeply familiar to me.
here’s a picture of Big Pine during the cold plunge.
Shamanism would seem to tap into things very fundamental for our human spiritual experience. Perhaps Shamanism is the original spiritual practice.
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In a sense, it was! Historically, shamanism was largely a gross-to-subtle practice at the magic magenta level, which first emerged around 50,000 years ago, and was probably the primary form of spiritual practice and belief for the majority of human existence (simply because those early stages took so long to get through.) Though of course there are contemporary forms of shamanistic practice that go all the way up to turquoise.
Check out the Wilber-Combs matrix, which plots states of consciousness on the x axis, and stages of consciousness on the y axis:
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Key point here @corey-devos is your very worst fears (or would it actually have been glee?) were not realized. NOTHING HAPPENED in the end.
Esper was at odds with his boss on several critical issues - troops to stem the destruction by BLM and Antifa, renaming military bases named after Confederates. Sounds to me like Esper’s was a little too Woke for his boss, so his boss fired him. The other “key military leaders” were actually civilians that resigned, likely because they saw the axe falling. Key here is if your boss ain’t Woke, don’t do Woke stuff.
@corey-devos I’m sorry to do this, but really? You think that if a President and his staff wanted to pull a coup, hold a revolucion that would make Castro or Guivara proud if you will, that it would be a handful of idiots wearing horned hats requiring the FBI to instigate the riot and doors held open by the Capital Police.
Corey - as I’ve said repeatedly, there was no “conspiracy for revolutionary overthrow” but some idiots did some moronic stuff likely with funding and leadership help by the FBI ala Wittmer “kidnapping plot”.
I’m not “doubling down”, but frankly you’re acting little more than the political hack in all this.
@corey-devos Did you read the presentation? Or just whonk on it like a massive doobie? Reality of it was everyone went to bed on election night with Trump having the reelection in hand. Then <drum roll please" LOOK at the presentation and the vote counts in a very select few precincts controlled by Democrats. I don’t have “proof”, but just as with the Juicy case “it doesn’t add up”.
And meanwhile you’re bleeting the “Election Fraud” trumpet, rest of the nation is reeling from Prez Dementia and Kackles gutting of American foriegn policy, domestic policy, energy policy, geopolitcal policy, border policy, and economic policy.
What’s hilarious drum beat of Trumpet, Trump, Trump Hrumphing when the Leftist Agenda should be scared shitless of Ron Desantis. He ain’t Woke and he ain’t budging when it comes to Marxism, Neo-Marxism, Meta-Marxism or whatever the Left will be wrapping their shit sandwhich of an agenda in. Start the “White Backlash” narrative if you like, but you’re not paying attention to the significant number of Blacks that Ain’t Black and patriotic Latinos “jumping ship”.
“NOTHING HAPPENED in the end.”
Because one person in a key position refused to go along with it. Sorry, Trump does not get credit for that, and that doesn’t mean that we pretend this was not their intent. It was a failed coup. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t an attempted coup.
You know we still arrest people who attempt to rob a bank, even if they fail, right?
Yes, I absolutely think that a President who clearly suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder (my own Zone 5 reconstruction of his interiors based on a very wide swath of evidence) would absolutely draft plans to overthrow the democratic election. That’s how this plan made it into the White House in the first place. That’s why there was pressure on Pence to go along with the plan. That’s why Trump called Pence a coward after not going along with the plan. Trump’s intent was for Pence to follow instructions.
“Reality of it was everyone went to bed on election night with Trump having the reelection in hand.”
No, that was the perception among the right-wing. Those in the reality-based community already knew that there would be a discrepancy between counting in-person votes and mail-in votes. It was baked into the analysis from the beginning. You can’t just continue to shout “conspiracy!” when every effort to provide evidence was laughed out of court, and in fact the attorneys are now facing consequences for their illegal use of the court system in effort to further muddy the waters for Trump voters. You can go along with the made up narrative that “well obviously this was an inside job by the ultra-woke FBI” if you want, but there is zero evidence backing you up. Which is par for the course for the belief-based GOP these days.
“You think that if a President and his staff wanted to pull a coup, hold a revolucion that would make Castro or Guivara proud if you will, that it would be a handful of idiots wearing horned hats requiring the FBI to instigate the riot and doors held open by the Capital Police.”
No, this is an argument made in bad faith. No one said that the insurrection of idiots at the capitol was the only evidence of a coup. It was just one of many pieces here, the piece that is most easily noticed because it took place in the open. But every week we have been learning about what was happening behind the scenes. Trying to force state representatives to fudge the vote numbers. Again, there was a plan that was presented on January 5th that explicitly lays all of this out, complete with talking points to be pushed into the media. I posted it above, it’s truly scary stuff. The kind of stuff which, if Obama or Hillary or anyone on the left were contemplating, would cause every conservative head in the country to explode.
Again, the GOP continues to lie every day about a stolen election, which is the greatest possible threat to “election security” we have in this country. And you seem to happily go along with it!
I love how this is an acceptable standard of truth for you, even after courts threw all the lawsuits out of court that would substantiate your personal belief that the election was stolen. And yet, somehow you can look at this timeline and say “nothing to see here!”
- Trump loses the election, refuses to admit he lost, refuses to concede
- Trump spends the next two months repeating daily that the election was stolen
- Trump pressures state representatives to “find the missing votes” and fudge the tallies
- For some reason, Kanye West sends someone to threaten GA election workers (LOL)
- Trump fires top military leaders after losing the election, installs loyalists
- Trump floods the court system with bogus lawsuits that were summarily laughed out of court (often by Trump-appointed judges)
- Trump team reviews powerpoint presentation on January 5th that LITERALLY outlines an overthrow of the election results, complete with military takeover of our election process and “blame China” talking points
- Plan EXPLICITLY requires Vice President Pence refusing to confirm election results
- Pence signals that he is unwilling to go along with plan
- The next day, idiot Trump supporters stage an insurrection at the Capitol, chant “hang Mike Pence” while building gallows, attack police officers, break down doors and windows, steal and vandalize and smear their own shit on the walls – and most importantly, delay the vote confirmation
- Pence eventually confirms election results
- Trump publicly calls Pence a coward for not refusing to confirm election results
- Trump continues to insist he won the election every opportunity he gets, to this very day.
Considering this timeline (which is abbreviated), saying Trump obviously had no plans to overthrow the election simply “doesn’t add up”.
As a reminder, coups typically require a four-part process:
- Informational: insist that the elections were stolen (despite total lack of evidence), and insist that the next election will be stolen as well. Maintain the Big Lie.
- Legal: use false claims of stolen election as excuse to change legal framework governing elections. Change who is in charge, how the vote is counted, how vote is confirmed. In some cases, allow state representatives to ignore vote totals and declare the winner themselves.
- Personnel: remove anyone who will not go along with the plan (Ester, Raffensberger, Cheney, Romney, etc.) and replace with loyalists
- Violence: encourage stochastic terrorism. “Won’t anyone rid me of these meddlesome electors?” Use the violence to both justify the coup (“look at all these people who agree with me!”) and to enforce authoritarian methods (“we need strong measures to quell this violence!”)
More on the Juicy Injustice Hoax… Seems the crotch grabbing paragon of virtous outrage wants to distance from the horrific made for TV homophobic racial hate crime hoax.
https://nypost.com/2021/12/10/don-lemon-brands-pal-jussie-smollet-a-liar/amp/
I don’t know how to get this across to you Corey, but “politics is politics which is a shitty business” . You LOVE to regurgitate crap from media/PR and Political domains as if it’s applicable in legal and and give a shit domains.
What happened to your Russia Gate diatribe? Yup, crickets. Just considering wealth levels, 45 and family didn’t need to gut the Republic for a few bucks. But… Conversely your DNC paladins for “Greater Good” have boosted there personal and family wealth by $10M’s whilst “serving” the public.
WTF is stochastic terrorism? Lol. You’re bandying about terms that I doubt you understand. My stochastic graduate course was the most difficult course of several ball busters of my college career. What does it mean to you?
You’re not doubling down Corey, but pushing all your chips in on some pretty obvious media shuck-n-jive. It seems your bullshit meter might be completely jacked up with aperspectival madness. But hey that shuck-n-jive aligns with your political perspectives so go man go.
My God @corey-devos. You’re worse than Stelzer or Lemon or Maddow since you KNOW BETTER than to project like this.
Do you think Conservatives heads exploded when Obama, Holder, Rice, Brennan, Comey and of course heir apparent Hillary were trashing the US?
Sure Fox whonked their horn, but insurrection. And revolt? When did that happen?
Even when the public was chastised for calling Obama Obama everyone snapped I to line calling him Mr. President.
So you’re if, maybe, gonna projections are frankly unfounded. You should know better.
What did Conservatives do? They voted in 45 and Sec Bengazi became an afterthought. Lol. And 45 got to work fixing the 44s authoritarian encroachments.
Did heads explode as you claim they will? Nope.
Was their violent overthrow? Nada.
Did Conservatives burn Portland and Seattle and Minnepolis and Seattle due to Zone 11 injustices? Lol
Integral Theory can be a useful mapping but swallowing the Leftist political and social orthodoxy as if it’s progressive, better than, and not regressive isn’t deserving you or IT. Think of it as Vicious Teal or simply enraged Red.
Dude, you’re eaten alive with TDS.
Corey, you are making it difficult for me to reconnect with my sensible friends of the mid-left/progressive persuasion. I am confident that the election was stolen… not because I’m a brain-dead Trump-chanting advocate, but because the system is broken, and the right have become cowards who no longer stand up for what they believe in. We had this conversation before, and you suggested that there are safeguards in place. I left it at that, because I can’t prove my conviction. But the system is broken, meaning, that the safeguards won’t work. America is becoming a third-world hell-hole.
Just because the media is not reporting on the crimes perpetrated by lefties does not mean that lefties are not perpetrating crimes (heck, what do you call the violence and destruction by the “mostly peaceful” antifa/blm riots if not crimes? Oh I know… civil disobedience, celebrated as the voice of the people when the left do it, crimes when it’s anyone else).
There are good people on the left, as on the right, and if I am to re-align with my old lefty allies (which I so yearn to do), the left is going to need to seriously reform and regroup. I cannot associate with the violent scum as characterized by the left in the US riots. These thugs are criminals, and just because the media are not reporting on it does not mean that they are just practicing “mostly peaceful protest” (civil disobedience). The media is not reporting on it because American democracy is unravelling, and the systems (including media) are breaking down. Old assumptions and relationships are no longer to be trusted.
Your president has dementia, ffs. He is the New Oligarchy’s fully compliant puppet, doing their bidding. Of course it’s all unravelling. And nobody, including the spineless Right, is doing anything about it, while the Left turns a blind eye to it.
Where the Right have their own record of perpetrating crimes, what has struck me about the recent violence by the Left is their brutal, gratuitous savagery. Stomping on heads, vicious round-house kicks to victims already immobilized. What do you call that, if not, in some of the more extreme instances, attempted murder? For no reason, other than opposing political views. I cannot imagine trusting these creeps in any kind of truce or ceasefire between opposing sides, for they are bereft of any semblance of honor or integrity.
I just tried searching for some of the more violent images to post here, but can’t find them any more… funny, that. I wonder why that might be? The new censorship is doing its job, I guess. There was the image of that guy, lying unconscious, whose crumpled body was about to receive a stomp on the head for good measure… don’t know if he survived. That is YOUR LEFT who is perpetrating this garbage. With isolated exceptions (e.g., Ted Bundy), such gratuitous, unrestrained violence is mostly alien to the right. But the left is ok with it, it’s only civil disobedience.
I will never associate with the left while they tolerate this rancid scum and turn a blind eye to their violence. Bending the knee for violent, lawless scum… what a joke America has become. Welcome to the new tyranny, who will surely usher a new Dark Age. America has an intractable race problem that will never be solved by the self-proclaimed “oppressed” becoming the new bigots.
And that idiot, Jussie Smollet, leaves me speechless. Why is his fabrication itself not classified as a hate crime, a crime motivated to sow racial division? Hate crimes? All crimes are ultimately hate crimes, all crimes (excepting crimes motivated by need, such as stealing a loaf of bread), are motivated by hatred of the other.
And what amazes me is how it all began. It took neither bombs nor guns, neither thugs with clubs nor armies of the State. It was the threat of being called mean names that had America roll over in servile acquiescence. That’s all it took.
By“ Corey, you are making it difficult for me to reconnect with my sensible friends of the mid-left/progressive persuasion.”
Well I certainly don’t intend for that to happen. I believe I am offering a reasonable fact-based argument for why January 6 should be fully investigated, and why we need to hold the people accountable who would consider a plan like the one that was presented on January 5th. I would be saying the exact same thing if Obama, Hillary, or Jimmy Carter did the same. You are certainly allowed to disagree, that’s what multiperspectival spaces are all about. But hopefully everyone can at least take a sober look at the timeline and understand why getting your Vice President to refuse to confirm a democratic election is so terribly dangerous to democracy.
“ I am confident that the election was stolen…”
You are certainly allowed to believe that. But extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and so far that evidence has not been made available. In fact, Trump’s team of attorneys is currently facing fines and consequences because of their bad-faith use of the court system.
But I do agree with you that, in many ways, our system is fundamentally broken. I wonder if we could agree on some of the ways that it is!
“Just because the media is not reporting on the crimes perpetrated by lefties does not mean that lefties are not perpetrating crimes (heck, what do you call the violence and destruction by the “mostly peaceful” antifa/blm riots if not crimes?”
The thing is though, calling the GOP for their lies is not the same as saying “the left never does crimes”. I never made that claim, and while yes the vast majority of people who participated in the BLM protests were indeed peaceful, the ones who weren’t need to be held accountable and prosecuted. I have criticized the left many times for not being more vocal about the need for nonviolent protest. I am deeply critical of the left, it’s messaging, and it’s turn toward illiberalism. As I’ve said many times, we seem to be experiences serious regression on both the right and the left. It just appears to me that the GOP is much better at taking advantage of the chaos and using it to push us closer to permanent minority rule.
“ I cannot associate with the violent scum as characterized by the left in the US riots.”
I would say anyone who is advocating or excusing violence is not truly “of the left”, but I don’t want to fall into the no true Scotsman fallacy. I would just invite you to consider the fact that, again, the vast majority of the millions who protested were in fact peaceful. All of this was also true of the civil rights protests in the 1960s, which were also criticized for the violence at the edges. MLK Jr. was routinely accused of instigating violence. But looking back, that violence does not delegitimize the huge steps forward that progressives made at that time.
“ what has struck me about the recent violence by the Left is their brutal, gratuitous savagery. Stomping on heads, vicious round-house kicks to victims already immobilized.”
I feel disgust when I see antifa do it. I feel disgust when I see Qanoners beating police officers at the Capitol. I feel disgust when I see the police doing it. I feel disgust when I see the proud boys doing it. I find all the gratuitous violence absolutely disgusting, whether it’s coming from the top down or for the bottom up.
“ There was the image of that guy, lying unconscious, whose crumpled body was about to receive a stomp on the head for good measure… don’t know if he survived.”
Not sure which video you mean. I do remember the video of the guy lying unconscious after the police knocked him unconscious, blood trickling from his ear, while refusing to give him medical attention.
This is the problem though. We are reacting to videos that get pushed through our echo chambers, and ignore similar videos in other chambers. We’ve become reactionaries reacting to reactionaries.
“ And that idiot, Jussie Smollet, leaves me speechless. Why is his fabrication itself not classified as a hate crime, a crime motivated to sow racial division?”
Believe me, no one is defending Smollet. Well, okay, BlackLivesMatter dot com did put out an absolutely idiotic defense, “yeah but we still can’t trust cops”. As far as I can tell, Smollet’s conviction is exactly what he deserves. Justice was done.
I just find the story somewhat insignificant, at least when compared to the January 5 presentation where an ex-president openly planned to overthrow the election and blame China. I am far less interested in LL culture war crap, because that is taking place among the unwashed masses, and there will always be idiots and extremists that each side uses to dehumanize the other. I am more interested in the LR governance that allows these life conditions to exist in the first place. We already agree, the system is broken, and it is the system that is driving this violence and dysfunction. And that system can only be fixed in the LR, by electing competent leaders who can shield the public from plutocrats who wish to loot our treasury and capture our regulatory institutions. Which is the primary reason that I cannot support the GOP as a political social holon. This doesn’t mean I don’t think the DNC hasn’t also been captured by the oligarchs, I just see the rot running much deeper with the GOP, and see them being much more brazen with our political machinery (stealing Supreme Court seats, hyper aggressive gerrymandering, fake lawsuits that get thrown out of court, creating vigilante systems to prevent women from getting abortions, etc.)
“ That is YOUR LEFT who is perpetrating this garbage.”
Again, criticizing the GOP does not mean fully endorsing the left. I am a registered independent 
This entire comment is basically just “yeah but what about the left?”
Again, criticizing Trump and spelling out the timeline does not mean excusing the crap that happens on the left. Of the two of us, I have been the only one capable of criticizing both parties. I’ve said many times that both the left and the right are regressing toward red/amber extremism.
And the fact that you call her “Benghazi Hillary” is especially funny, while claiming the left is going after the right due to fabricated claims.
And your continued use of phrases like that, and “Kackles” and “dementia Joe” makes your accusations of “TDS” funny as well. I guess I can just say you have “BDS” and walk away thinking I said something very clever
An honest question, not meant as a gotcha or anything.
Do you feel at all similar in terms of the political right tolerating Qanon conspiracies and their Capitol hijinks?
I understand that you feel the culture of the left is one that leads to violence and loss of life. I disagree in many ways, but can understand how you came to that conclusion. But another question I have is, how do you feel about the culture of the right being one that leads to 5-6x higher death rates due to Covid in Trump-supporting counties? We’re talking tens of thousands dead, and these are in suburban and rural areas, where the virus does not spread as rapidly as it does in urban environments. From where I am sitting, this is due to the sorts of misinformation and red-altitude “freedom means I do whatever I want” sentiments that often run rampant in right-leaning culture. Do you also consider this loss of life to be a form of violence, considering the total body count?
How do you think we can find common ground in a post-ideological space? I know that I find myself frequently challenged from the right, as with this discussion here, and also frequently challenged by the left, as with several other discussions I am having elsewhere. To me, this seems to mean I’m doing something right, or something very very wrong 
Wokists to the left of me, Qultists to the right, here I am, stuck in the middle with you.
“ WTF is stochastic terrorism? Lol. You’re bandying about terms that I doubt you understand.”
Please do not project a lack of understanding onto me
“As described by leading scholars, stochastic terrorism involves ‘the use of mass media to provoke random acts of ideologically motivated violence that are statistically predictable but individually unpredictable’”
“Won’t anyone rid me of this turbulent priest?”
I didn’t realize you were so well grounded in math, probability, and statistics! A graduate level class in stochastic processes does indeed sound very intense.
It’s a different category entirely, as I see it… though you raised a valid point in your earlier post… I accept that it is difficult to escape the silos from within which we intercept our realities. On the one hand, I don’t see your comparison, but on the other, I’ve not had the motivation to test Qanon beyond my lazy first impressions.
To be honest, Corey, I’ve not paid much attention to Qanon. I’ve assumed that they were naught but a conspiracy theory collective, entertaining silly conspiracies perpetrated by the Left, but otherwise harmless. Not too different to the silly conspiracies entertained by the Pelosi/Schumer/Schiff brigade that, however, misused the impeachment process in bad faith. But at least Qanon weren’t hijacking legislative instruments for their own agenda, and they weren’t as destructive and wasteful of government resources as that toxic, spiteful, TDS-afflicted Pelosi/Schumer/Schiff impeachment circus.
Capitol hijinks? You mean January 6? I’m inclined to the view that Jan 6 was civil disobedience by the right. And given that civil disobedience is only acceptable when the left do it, it gets hyped up, by the leftist propaganda machine (the left control the media), as insurrection by the Right.
Now as for covid… this is complicated, and my motivations are not political, but systemic. If covid were as infectious as it is and as lethal as Ebola, then sure, immunize everyone, full lockdowns, masks, etc. But for the overwhelming majority under 65 years old, covid is as lethal as the common flu. For them, best to allow natural immunity to take its course… nothing to do with politics. Indeed, denying natural immunity by forcing the young and the fit to be vaccinated might actually make things worse. Forced vaccinations across all cohorts, I worry, might actually encourage mutations and variants. And denying children the natural immunity that they can take with them into adulthood (without the need for 6-monthly boosters), by requiring them to be vaccinated, is simply wicked. The most vulnerable cohort, the 65+ with pre-existing conditions, is easily identified and therefore easiest to monitor for early warning signs and subsequently target for the most effective treatment.
Bottom line: The covid situation is being seriously mismanaged, thanks to conflicting interests. I believe that the original Swedish approach, allowing natural (herd) immunity to take its course while prioritizing care for the most vulnerable cohort, was the correct approach to take. I’m not a fan of the libertarian “but muh rights and freedoms” obsession entertained by the right. Heck, they allowed their election to be stolen, and now they think they’re so brave by refusing to wear a mask? Shows how lame the crybaby American Right has become.
Bottom line to my bottom line: You ask whether I consider this loss of life due to covid to be a form of violence. I think in terms of the systemic solution and the future impact on the human ecosystem… politics doesn’t even enter into it. What kind of impact will the response to covid have on the human ecosystem? That’s the only question that matters, imho. And on that, I am not an expert.
You should put that to music:
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How do these years compare to 2014,15,16?
Implied is that 45 remained actively managing his empire, counter to what he said he would do.
Implied also is that 17,18,19 saw an increase due to Trumps Presidency.
Not surprisingly the article makes no reference to historical performance compared to say 13,14,15,16.
All reports on Obama were Net Worth before Election and After.
Without the historical data I assume this is Leftist Wokenomics Propaganda to further the Cause of Greater Good. (Aka Orange Man Bad)