Sometimes humor and satire speaks truth louder
Here is a serious piece about what Republicans are actually saying and how they are taking Russia’s side against their own country:
Interesting that average Russians seem to “get it” and are on the right side of history more than Republicans are.
2,000 people arrested, which suggests these were sizable demonstrations:
Really, it seems that the Republican Party is the most tone deaf message out there, and we are just at the start of this. The more Republicans try to spin their way out of this with nonsensical talking points, the more the entire world will realize how full of it they are.
https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-ukraine-protest-georgia-invasion/31725406.html
Bullshit
You have no idea what the Republican agenda is, do you? LOL
You’re not much of a Strategic thinker are you Ray?
So whilst the Radical Left is business trying to dismantle the less than perfect best place on the planet, they’re also decrying “White Supremacist” at the mention of “America First”. Look no further than the immense effort @corey-devos just spent trying to weave together his “insinuations” that all Conservatives are White Supremacists because a majority of the nation is sick of the Racist bullshit the Left is pimping.
Meanwhile, you want the US to DO EXACTLY WHAT THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION was doing - be a grown up Actor on the global stage. None of the current government’s “oopsies” happened under the previous administration. Even taking on the Deep State would create a healthier America.
Jeez @raybennett, you have no f’ing clue what you are talking about. Raving Madman comes to mind. LOL
Interesting Hoover Institute “State of the Union” survey. Well worth the read.
What I came away with is that while there are some common concerns shared across the political spectrum, many concerns are simply not shared. Not necessarily “anti” or “pro”, but not of concern by one party or the other.
Views that align fairly well:
Show me how so.
I have the actual words of actual Republicans.
All you can do is deny actual reality.
Again, we go back to where we started - you clicking your heels saying “there’s no place like home”
Funny thing is that your post actually displays raving madman characteristics, not mine.
You haven’t presented any actual facts to refute what I am saying - just name calling.
Go ahead and name call, if that’s all you can do. Deny reality.
I’ve seen the writing on the wall for at least two decades, and as I’ve said many times - I’m as prepared as I can be for both worst cases and also best case scenarios.
I’ve been wondering why all the preemptive “Republicans Love Russia” narrative you guys are whonking.
Are you trying to blunt the impact of Russian Alfa Bank suing the Clinton Campaign henchmen for what appears to be slander before it hits the public’s inboxes?
If Durham does prove that Joffe, Sussman, Elias, Obama’s FBI/DOJ, and Hillary’s campaign did in fact “fabricate bullshit” around Alfa bank advertising spam (that’s the DNS/IP traffic “smoking gun”), we might be seeing a truckload of Civil suits.
Are you joking? - Trump is the leader of the Republican party and he literally said it.
There is absolutely no disputing Trump is the absolute leader of the Republican Party. No one is is even a close 2nd. As soon as he says something, there are hundreds of other leaders who just back whatever he says - no matter how distant from reality.
To deny this shows you really are separated from reality. For me to say it is just observing.
But also - it seems you ignored the interview on FOX news that I posted? A leader of the Republican party challenged on FOX news for his support of Russian invasion and expansion against Europe.
Then after you read this, we have Romney saying a similar thing:
I consider Romney a true actual Conservative - not this Trump Conservative nonsense. While I disagree with Romney on certain issues, I actually respect him.
https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2022/02/27/mitt-romney-calls-pro/
Then we have an actual poll (factual data):
So tell me how are you possibly able to ignore the big fat pink elephant in the room and not see the massive support Putin has in the Republican Party, and how that is against The United State’s strategic military and economic interests?
Are you still back in 2016?
Let them sue and work it out in the court.
No - that will be resolved in the court, obviously. What impact can me posting here have on such a court descision?
Oh, maybe you are drinking the Far Right and Qanon cool aid that Clinton will be the Democratic Presidential candidate in 2024? So you think I am running interception for her? lmao. That’s quite a twisted way to completely avoid seeing reality for what it is.
No, for me Clinton is a 2016 News story. All this effort of you to bring it up is just you spinning yourself into a frenzy about fantastical scenarios. If she did something illegal, it will be discovered in the court battles. I have no investment in Hilary Clinton, so whatever the verdicts are I don’t see how they impact the future of someone else running in 2024.
When did I say or insinuate that? Let’s not put a straw man between us when you and I are agreeing so much these days 
I said that the conservatives have a problem with a subgroup of white nationalists (and Christian nationalists) injecting themselves into the party. And like it or not, the fact that the GOP seems to do very little to marginalize those voices creates a bad perception (“bad optics”) that the party is overly beholden to this particular voting block. I also said that I believe this “fringe” is much larger than you give it credit for — evidenced by a) the success these fringe candidates have had on a national level, and b) the number of prominent members of the GOP maintaining the “stolen election” lie, which is itself a Qanon conspiracy theory — but that doesn’t mean that I think “all conservatives are white supremacists”.
I am also pointing out how toxic it is when an entire group of people — in this case, conservatives — become defined by their most vocal fringe. And I am suggesting that you are doing the exact same thing with the left, assuming that anyone who does not fully subscribe to the GOP platform (or lack of platform, as the case may be) is therefore a woke Marxist collectivist socialist et cetera et cetera et cetera.
I would also point out that in a previous discussion I established that by his own definitions, @FermentedAgave is also a Collectivist, Socialist Marxist - though admittedly he is antiwoke in his wokism.
We’ll hang on, let’s not use another straw man here. I never said that “equal outcomes” should be the only metric we use here. In fact, I see “equal opportunities” (a zone 5 measurement of equality) and “equal outcomes” (a zone 7 measurement of equality) not as opposites, but rather as a polarity to be managed.
Unequal opportunities create unequal outcomes. Which is why “outcomes” is a useful way to measure whether opportunities are actually equal to begin with.
However, we need more nuance. If opportunities are equal, we expect outcomes to be more or less equal as well, AFTER ADJUSTING for things like typology, proclivities, biological differences, cultural differences, developmental stages, etc.
And of course we need to pay attention to what facets of reality we expect equal outcomes in the first place. Do I expect as many women on oil rigs as men? No. Do I expect as many black players on a hockey teams as white players? No. Do I expect everyone to make the same income regardless of skill level? No.
However, do I expect that people be sentenced the same way for the same crime, regardless of the color of one’s skin? Yes. Do I expect that as many black women die during childbirth as white women? Yes. Do I expect that people make the same amount of money for the same skill sets, regardless of race, gender, or sexual orientation? Yes. These are the sorts of equal outcomes that I expect from any just society. And if these outcomes are equal, there’s a very good chance the opportunities are equal as well (again, after adjusting for development, skill, and type.
Here’s a short summary of my take on the outcomes/opportunities polarity:
Often in the past, we have framed the debate between “equal opportunities” and “equal outcomes” as one that is primarily divided into Orange and Green camps. However, from an integral point of view, there may be a different (and ultimately more useful) way to approach the conflict — not as one that is primarily occurring between orange vs. green, but rather one that is occurring between Zone 5 and Zone 7. This reframe helps us cut through the apparent contradiction of trying to enforce both simultaneously (as Ken has pointed out, emphasizing equal opportunities tends to diminish equal outcomes, and emphasizing equal outcomes tends to diminish equal opportunities. At the same time, unequal outcomes can also create unequal opportunities, and unequal opportunities almost always produce unequal outcomes).
Currently the debate exists mostly as a conflict between an Orange enactment of Zone 5 (equal opportunities) and a Green enactment of Zone 7 (equal outcomes). But I think an integral discussion would focus more on a minimally teal enactment of these zones, while stripping out the orange/green content, which allows us to hold “opportunities” and “outcomes” not as contradictory opposites, but rather as an ongoing polarity to be managed and integrated, each providing important insight into the other.
LOL. Your zealous fixation with this “fringe subgroup” and cloaked label had me thinking it was a big concern of yours. But apparently my concern is unfounded.
And yes, Conservatives - at least all that I know - cringe when Trump starts rambling, Proud Boys rumble with Antifa, or some idiot speaks like a Jim Crow White Supremacist.
Is there something you would want me to personally do to or say? I’m not really in a position to strike their Free Speech rights, and would actually rather have them share their views so we know them for who they are.
Would you like me to apologize for what someone else believes or says? That’s easy @corey-devos . I’m sorry there are idiots in the world that are several rungs behind on the conveyor belt of human development and I disavow their messages.
How large would you estimate this fringe subgroup in the Republican party?
Did you come up with any personal acquaintances that you would consider White Supremacists? I’m likely much closer on the spectrum to this brand of “fringe element” and I don’t know any myself. Maybe I put off a “vibe” and they keep it hidden from me?
Maybe what would help everyone is if you and team could give us your detailed segmentation on the various Integral demographics splits. Something like:
- White Supremacist - Red, Psychotic Unhealthy - 27% of population - can be identified by Republican affiliation
- Anarchist - Red/Amber - Overall healthy - 7% of population - can be identified by Mao tshirts
- Teal Integralists - Teal - Superhealthy, 1% - Can be identified by aura.
- Centrist/Independent - 27% -…
Do you have any links to something like this?
Perhaps we could look at the Hoover State of the Union survey posted above? It’s just one mapping but was segmented into dissimilar and common concerns of the population.
You’ll have to learn the art of conversation without inserting passive aggressive insults In no way would I consider myself “zealous”. But yes, my concern is real — and that concern is mostly around how postmodern media platforms allow these sorts of groups to more easily convene and exert influence, wheras they used to be shamed out of social discourse. And I am concerned that the left is not doing nearly enough to mute their fringe, and neither is the right. And I am concerned that the politics of hate are causing folks like yourself to miscast the entire left as “Marxist woke collectivist” whatever, while insisting the the right should not be held to the standards set by the biggest morons in their base (the same morons who were responsible for the January 6 insurrection [McConnell’s words, not just mine ])
I’m not going to do that, because it would be totally pulled out of our ass, and I choose not to add more disinformation to this thread
Well said and agree completely with your assessment and approach @corey-devos
Having worked in a large MNC, I can tell you the pendulum has currently swung well into the “create Equal outcomes regardless of experience, ability”. Racism and Gender-ism is systematic, deep, pervasive, and very well known.
Now as someone that might be able to take a “higher view point” than the leaves on the trees in the forest, I think after the dismantling of Wokeism we will be as a society in a healthier place.
Sure, many of the Peter Principle Lottery winners won’t be happy when the Racist gravy train ends, just as there are many Low/Negative Intersectionality rated people that aren’t happy today. Everyone happy? No. Little more just and equitable? Yes. Conveyor belt keeps on rolling. Progress moves forward.
Nope, you said exactly what I hoped you’d be willing to say! My perception is that you have been reluctant to use your own Free Speech rights to call these folks out for what they are, but now we might both be able to agree that both sides have allowed their respective fringe to dominate the discourse, and that we should try to do better when it comes to OUR discourse.
I agree this has become a trend among many of the most vocal subgroups on the left. I simply insist that it does not describe the left as a whole. However, just as the right is beholden to some of the biggest morons in their voter base, the same is true for the left, and I will criticize it every time I see it.
Ok.
Do want to point out that while you would clearly see me as closer to this “fringe element”, the information you dredge up on your “fringe media” outlets has been almost completely new to me. 160 subscribers and a few thousand views is hardly influential.
Your NopeWay group has an interesting funding trail - it’s 3 levels deep through PACs, NGOs, and Funds. But it is interesting to see who’s funding this stuff.
Have you ferreted out who’s funding your Nick Fuentes White Supremacist? Would be interesting to see.
Any thoughts on the “Tip of the Spear” for the Racist Industrial Complex Black Lives Matter organization? Thoughts on their alignment with Hillary’s lawyer Elias?
Why do you keep calling “mine”? Again, that was the screen name of some random YouTube account that uploaded the video. I think what we should be paying attention to is not how many subscribers that random YouTube channel has, but rather how many people attend conferences like AFPAC, and how many state and federal level GOP members it attracts to the stage. Which, hopefully we agree, is currently “too many”.
The same with Qanon. It’s one thing to say “oh they are irrelevant, they have no real influence” — but then, after something like January 6th happens, we need to be able to step back together and say “okay, maybe we gave them a bit too much rope here, time for some cleanup.”
It’s that reluctance piece that I want to move past. It should be easy for any rational person to say “it is very bad for a sitting president to lie about election results, plot an overthrow of a national election, and conspire to send fake electors to the Capitol”. The GOP establishment had no problem doing so after Nixon, but it seems to me that there is a new “never apologize” ethos that has become prevalent among many/most of those groups.
Which, personally, I think all comes down to cynical opportunistic branding — “we can’t admit that our guy did very bad things, because that makes the rest of us look bad too.”
And yes, that happens on both sides as well — however, it seems to me that Democrats are more likely to admit error, because their base punishes hypocrisy more than the right-leaning base does (which is how Al Franken allowed himself to be ousted over frivolous accusations, while someone like Gaetz is still embraced despite far more serious accusations.)
I’m still rooting for conservatives, and think that one day they may even become the first “integral” party — but not until the fever breaks and we finally flush all of this weaponized bathwater that has built up, and not until we start seeing more green and post-green expressions of conservatism exerting influence in the world.