“We are going to have to find ways to recognize and respect the rights of each other and of the community, and these rights cannot be found in objective matter, nor are they simply a case of my own individual sincerity, nor are they a matter of functionally fitting together empirical events: they are rather a matter of fitting our minds together in an intersubjective space that allows each of us to recognize and respect the other. Not necessarily agree with each other, but recognize each other—the opposite of which, put simply, is war.
We are interested, that is, not only in the truth, not simply in truthfulness, and not merely in functional fit: we are interested in justness, rightness, goodness, and fairness.”
—Ken Wilber
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Thank you @corey-devos I certainly agree. Curios does Ken ever participate in any of these conversations?
I was drawn here because of his explanations on spirituality. Ken’s input would certainly carry a lot of weight here.
I would love to read more on the spiritual aspects of things … perhaps such discussions would positively affect our interactions with one-another here?
Brief interlude to Externalities and thread topic… could this be part of the CAUSE or merely a symptom of division in US?
Seems MSM and NYT specifically is finally turning the corner a bit given the Delaware Grand Jury investigation on Hunter operating in conjuction with VP Biden in Ukraine, Russia, Afghanistan and China.
Not trying to control or tell you exactly how to communicate, but yes, trying to influence how you communicate.
Your directness, imo, is actually an asset, when its not laced with some of the other stuff we’ve been talking about in today’s and other posts.
Respectful conversation? Yes. I for one know you’re capable of it from those times you have exhibited it. The question is one of consistent willingness.
Wisdom in this.
Have we finally figured out what this thread is actually for?
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Possibly 
On that note, I just had a wonderful, fun, and fascinating 3 hour conversation with Stefan Schultz, a journalist from Spiegel, about an integral approach to journalism that you might enjoy. Be on the lookout for that over the next week or two!
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Thanks Bria.
Adding The Great Delusion to the reading list (not something I do lightly).
Very much aligns with AQAL.
Nationalism is the most powerful force on the planet today.
Living in a Liberal Democracy with fixation on individual rights is the best society for people to live in. We are blessed.
Liberal Hegemony as a foreign policy is not successful, even if best end state for humanity.
Realism in foreign policy is likely the realistic approach.
Edit: Doesn’t cover cost of inaction, but a beautiful segmentation on Internal Quadrant (you really really want to live in a Liberal Democracy) but exporting Liberal Democracy/Liberal Hegemony runs into a multitude of blocks, requiring Realism in foreign policy.in order to honor Self Determination. At least that’s my take on Mearschiemer’s viewpoint and message.
This is an excellent lecture to watch. MANY thanks for posting @Bria_OConnell .
Inaction. Gotcha. The sense of social justice is low, sense the understanding of society is so low. Almost impossible to get those who are three awake to see the fourth of society. But this crew has not aged well. The work has grown in Zak Stein’s work.
Taking a very cursory look at Zak Stein he appears to be Metapsychology domain focused albeit at Consilience. Consilience Project has one of the best multisystematic approaches that perhaps will lay some rubber on the road over time.
Sowell is an Economist with 70 years experience and a journey from poor black man to Marxist to where he’s at now. Definitely he’s on a different branch than a SJ or Metapsych. In his discussion these would clearly land in the Unconstrained domain. Sowell clearly states he’s a Constrained adherent. I wouldn’t discount too easily someone with his exceptionally high level of output at the very highest levels in his fields.
Mearshiemer seems to be more Foreign affairs focused.
All 3 are I think focused on different domains. The answer to “what is the meaning of life” might require trying on many domain lenses.
Interesting casualty of the DNC communion.
Mass Ignorance or Biden/Harris Administration spreading disinformation? Would this be considered unhealthy MGM attacking or gaslighting MOM, MAM with disinformation? Is their an appropriate Integral solution?
With this level cognitive dissonance, is it possible to not have widespread mass feelings of meaning deficit, discord.
Is it necessary to implement economic policies that promote weakening of Liberal Democratic Capitalism in order to create conditions for a Great Reset in order to ascend?
Excerpt:
Are You Better Off Today Than A Year Ago? By 4-To-1, Americans Say ‘No’
The poll asked: “Generally speaking, is your family better off today than it was one year ago, worse off than it was one year ago, or about the same as it was a year ago?”
Fewer than one in five (20%) said they were “better off.” while more than twice that number — 42% — said they were “worse off.” Another 36% said they were “about the same.”
+Bloombergs recommendations on mitigating inflation from the New School for Social Research.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-03-13/inflation-stings-most-for-those-earning-under-300-000
Propaganda or Patriotism? Reference Dr. David Martin Phd. This is spreading around here in the Florida Red State. https://vimeo.com/684796543
Patriotism and propaganda are usually intertwined. Show me a Patriot and I almost guarantee you’ll find all kinds of propaganda that led to it. But what’s more interesting to me is the growing trend of propaganda towards a specific spiritual patriotism in the USA. In your link, the message is that by spreading the propaganda they are “bringing light to darkness”. The message is that Biden is against God.
I think it’s unfortunate that much of the US is stuck in this religious war looking for enemies, and when none are found, to make them up.
The only spaces that existed to raise people up above to a higher consciousness are quickly being perverted to serve the cause of division and conflict under a perverted idea of “light”.
Not particularly interested in political discussions but in impact to society and perhaps tempering, soothing our “culture wars”.
Now we have DNC, Clinton and Biden Family investigations underway. Should we consider this cleaning up of Amber power grab cloaked Green marketing?
Federal Election Commission election regulators fined Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign and the Democratic National Committee earlier this month for not properly disclosing the money they spent on controversial opposition research that led to the infamous Trump-Russian dossier.
Fox speculates on “why now” that NYT, WaPo, CNN are starting to cover the Biden Family corruption scandal. Not recommending that we get into a big political he said/she said debate. Just posting so we can circle back regarding disinformation, the Qanon strawman, and most importantly the impact on Integralism moving forward.
At a high level, modification of our cellular structures perhaps should be considered deeply. We bankrupt companies for causing birth defects, death, or disablement, yet seemingly are ok with “little changes”.
The relationships between influential interest groups (big Pharma in this case) with the government regulatory agencies is a bit concerning.And to think whatever decisions have been made in the past must simply roll right on into the future - selectively claiming progress or regression - adds an epistemological conundrum to the mess.
Once again, given time - information comes out.
All this talk about Putin’s agenda being because of what Trump did or what Biden did, or who was in office at what time or what Putin would have done in an alternate timeline, blah blah blah …
- is nonsense.
I’ve never seen that quote. I hate it when people just invent this stuff out of nowhere. Republican Joe Walsh was dumb to make it look like an actual quote, and these Dems were dumb to repeat it without confirming. Oh well, confirmation bias is everywhere.
The quote I was referring to was what Tucker said a few days before the invasion:
“Why do I care what is going on in the conflict between Ukraine and Russia? I’m serious. Why shouldn’t I root for Russia? Which by the way I am.”
I thought it was an odd thing to say, since you were saying that conservative media fully knew that Putin’s invasion was imminent, while Tucker, as I understand it, is the most watched conservative talking head in America. Seems like he would have been keenly aware of Putin’s intent to invade, since he is so enmeshed with the rest of conservative media.
Sometimes we see satire taken out of context but I don’t know the details. Whatever Carlson says, I’m fairly certain the Lefty media will take and position in the most damning light. Whatever bias you want to reinforce, you can find the fuel for your fire.
Carlson and Hannity would be the most “junky” of all the announcers - roughly equivalent to The View, Maddow, Lemmon, Cuomo’s. All hyperbole, likely misinformation if there is any “information” at all.
I spend most of my time with long form content - Hoover Institute as an example. Obviously they didn’t have the day and time, nor tactical invasion plan. There weren’t any material surprises based on the signals given and actual actions taken by the Biden Admin, Russia, Europe, NATO, Ukraine, Belarus, etc that the Hoover Institute and others did not account for.
Also of note are that there haven’t been any material “derp, didn’t see that coming” or “unintended consequences” such as “Putin Gas Price Hike” that were not discussed prior to the invasion. Not really any excuses for likely the most sophisticated intelligence and decision making organization feeding the POTUS’s team.
Net-net is that consensus now is the Biden Administration is actively destabilizing the US in order to create an “emergency” situation to trigger the DNC Elites “Great Reset”.
There is also significant reporting on NYT, WaPo, CNN and other’s “pivots” toward their pre-2020 election “oops, got it wrong” calls regarding the Russian Collusion Hoax and known information on Biden Family business dealings with China (+$30M), Ukraine (+$4M), Russia (+$5M). It’s moving into coverage of the investigations of President Biden being “compromised” based on Hunter’s tax records.