Information Warfare Education, Propaganda, and How to Tell the Difference

Town Square
1586

Yes, indeed. It is not the Church that “makes people good”, but people use Churches for whatever they are oriented towards. Yes, sometimes a transformation occurs.
It’s very similar to the difference between my community of friends and Leftists spouting maoist poetry in a coffee shop basement. Or the difference between your average gay and an old school biker leatherman.

What I believe would be valuable would be a “calling out” as the Australians did. Concrete factual numbers of % of religious leaders in a given organization that have molestation or other sexual accusations against them. I surely would not leave my child at the St John of God Brothers day care, that’s for sure. But when the data just doesn’t exist about which are safer and which are not it’s like rolling the dice.

It’s not just Christianity and Churches - I recognize every organization and community has the potential to harbor these people. But there is a subset of Churches where the potential for things to go wrong increase exponetially. A pastor who is riding the gravy train of evangelic televised donations and whose word carries the weight of God’s word seems to be a dangerous combination.

My own childhood religious experience was with people who were mostly intrinsic but also very Literal. I don’t think anyone I as a child knew at church as was molested. My personal experience is “why bother?” “Why give 10% of my income to build a 10 million dollar temple?” and so on.

1587

I think we are inching towards an along-the-spectrum view of Christians!

Would you consider it sufficient progress that every single volunteer has an NCIS background check and signs an affidavit to report to the police any grooming or abuse activity?

It used to be your choice on tithing 10% or not. Mandated “tithing” has just been ratified into legislation under social program expansions. Instead of the freely attending congregation, you’ve just gotten mandated and enforced tithing to be administered by career apparatchiks. It’s completely different, right? :slight_smile:

1588

I always had a “spectrum” view of Christians and have attended many Christian churches in my adult life. From Rock and Roll Praising the Lord to Polyamorous Friendly to Universal Life to a Course in Miracles to most recently “Starquestmastery” and Crystals in 2020. I have a very broad exposure to many things Christian.
I have only ever criticized a very narrow and I deem dangerous subsection of Christianity - the Authoritarian and Literal Mythic variety - who also seem to be the Christians most willing to turn to violence when they don’t get their way.

Perhaps you are discovering that not all Christians are the same as you?

I would consider it significant progress if it was just recognized that a problem exists and if a true sincere effort was made to discover the actual extent of the problem.
Yes, reporting should be mandated without exception. If society requires Psychologists to report imminent threat of harm against another person then Priests and religious leaders should not be excluded. If a religious leader reasonably suspects child abuse, rape or molestation will continue then they should be mandated to report it to authorities.

In return for my enforced civil tithing I get roads, schools, a police force and a feeling of safety when we bomb other countries with my tax dollars.
I never got any such return from a Christian tithe.
I do however currently work with a methodology that includes nonChristian “offerings” that produce measurable results in this life and I do not have to wait and hope to maybe get results when I’m dead, as is the case (generally) with Christian tithing.

1589

LOL

It’s actually EVERY SINGLE VOLUNTEER in the church, not just the leaders.
Perhaps we should look at excruciating child grooming and abuse as a development milestone that perhaps Orange gifts to the world. In decades to come, will history reflect on the Green or Teal so vehement gifting of gender fluidity and reassignment surgery to 5 year olds as progress? Or perhaps as a barbaric regressive perversion?

I’m glad to hear that you have found a community you find worthwhile to share your wealth, talent, and labors with. Makes a body feel good to be working to make a difference in the world! Keep on brother!

1590

I mean, considering that this is only happening in people’s imagination, I’d guess history won’t regard it at all!

However, I do think that history will well regard the ongoing (and very messy!) differentiation of psychological, biological, cultural, and social facets of identity, the increased agency that is generated from this expansion, and how this in turn helps expand our definition of what it means to be a human being in the 21st century. Infinite diversity in infinite combinations, as my man Spock would say :wink:

1591

BTW, the Catholics are the largest Church and easiest to pull numbers on, as well as the deepest pockets to get into.

Last I checked they had something like 17,000 Priests that were busted for sexual abuse. While I would assume the number higher with got aways.
Out of the 440,000 Catholic Priests that’s 4-8% as child molesters.
Snagging % of Priest age males at 1/4 of total population and 770,000 registered sex offenders, the general population is at 1%.
So yes, it’s safe to say Religious Leaders (at least Catholic Priests) are 4 times or more likely to be sex offenders.

Today, Catholics that volunteer also all go through the similar NCIS background checks and grooming/abuse training signing an affidavit to report to police.

So now what?

1592

I think we first have to make sure we are talking about the same thing.
1 - Background checks will pick up convictions and perhaps restraining orders, but usually not allegations. The problem here is the hush-hush that occurs and so a conviction may be impossible. I am not talking about yor Church, but lets say that Church in Australia or specifically the Catholic Church. Compare this with mandatory reporting, where if you are a member of certain professions you can be banned nationwide or even be charged for a crime and / or subject to civil lawusuit for failing to report something to authorities. Can you imagine if it was legal to sue the Catholic Church because they knew about a Priest’s behavior but failed to report it to the police?
2 - The second thing is jurisdiction. I believe right now it is up to individual states to pass laws on specific career areas (like education, medicine or psychology) so while there may be mandatory reporting that has strict requirements in one state, 20 miles away in another state there may be no laws at all.

1593

It’s mandatory reporting to the police, not the church heirarchy.

I think every church that has been caught covering up has paid out $100M’s or $Bs in restitution and damages. Wasn’t it the Catholic Archdiocese of Boston that went bankrupt, cleaned out in damages?

Seems AZ LDS is getting roasted, and rightfully so for failure to report known child abuse.

Seems each denomination has to receive the Rod to stop molesting children.

Just as the Boy Scouts, Olympic Gymnastics…

Weird twister is that they use the same drug/hormone as a male to female gender “transition” procedure for children that is used to chemically castrate pedophiles. But no worries, right?

1594

Again, I’m not sure how universal these reporting laws are.
It seems we agree they are a good thing and they should be in all 50 states and that religions should not be exempt.

One thing - I do also believe that these consequences are part of the backlash against things liike the “me too” movement. Organizations only do it when they have to and many members of these organizations probably see it as an unnecessary and intrusive burden. They might even have anger to hide from themselves that they were careless in the care of children for 50 years, or they might be angry of the consequences like the Boy Scouts of America not really being a thing anymore. No more will a single scout master be able to take 12 young boys out in the woods alone for two weeks. I’ll be sad if that will be the case. I was never molested at summer camp. But others may resent increased restrictions and controls.

I’m not sure how trans issues keep popping up into this and why you keep trying to connect this to transitioning.
If we are talking about parents rights vs the government’s rights to dictate what parents can and can’t allow their children to do, that is another conversation.

1595

Based upon the training I have gone through what the LGBTQ+ thinks appropriate with school children would trigger a police reporting. The only difference is being State sanctioned vs a private pedophilia.
It’s a bit ironic that they’re using pedophile castration drugs on children.

Absolutely agree that Organizations are self protective which of course they are. When this Org protection results in harm to individuals it has to stop and seems to be getting cleaned up every time it is exposed.

I think you overestimate how blind and complacent church members are, and grossly underestimate how angry they are about any harm to children.
Again, it seems like it’s easy to assume “all church goers” have shallow blind Extrinsic beliefs vs everyone I’m aware of that Intrinsically “owns” their beliefs.

1596

I mean, you have amazing ESP.
It’s also not just Churchgoers. I have a memory from my childhood in the 4th grade. I was in military housing and I went with my 5th grade friend to this couple’s house. So there we were - a 4th grader and a 5th grader and a male and female adule and somehow we were looking at penthouse magazines. I think after that I broke my leg jumping off a roof and was housebound the rest of the summer.
It was only recently that I put two and two together and realized my friend was being groomed.

I don’t think I overestimate how blind and complacent Church mebers are, because they are just a subset of an entire nation that was somewhat blind and complacent, then shocked and angry when all this started coming out on various talk shows.

And I don;t underestimate how angry they are - I’m fully aware. What I am saying is the anger is usually redirected to something absurd like Hillary Clinton’s Pizza Parlor.

1597

So why focus the attacks and discussions solely on Churches when child sexual abuse is apparently seen in the entirety of humanity?
We still hear about teachers have sex with their minor students. Latest I saw as a teacher that had an “affair” with her student for 3 years. Court sentenced her to a whopping 60 days in jail.

For some yes, for most no. What isn’t visible are the people within the organizations that get to work ferreting out and holding accountable child abusers, without appearing on MSNBC or FOX. If they don’t appear on national TV, would you consider this a conspiracy to cover up?

1598

Google Union Petition to supress birth care search engine results in order to promote Abortions. So Alphabet employees think actually giving birth and receiving care is “disinformation”?

Turns out the Pfizer Vax has some positive side effects - rapid weight loss and increased freedom.

Trial documents released in April revealed that Pfizer had to hire 1,800 additional full-time employees in the first half of 2021 to deal with “the large increase” of adverse reactions to its COVID vaccine.

https://amgreatness.com/2022/08/16/report-44-percent-of-pregnant-women-in-pfizer-trial-lost-their-babies-fda-and-cdc-recommended-jabs-for-expectant-mothers-anyway/?utm_source=substack

1599

The CWA – to which an estimated 16,000 editors and reporters belong through its NewsGuild component – is not only one of the nation’s largest unions, with about 700,000 members, but one of the most politically active and partisan.

1600

Listen - if 8% of teachers were accused of Sexual misconduct - I would want to know about it, and if the organization of teachers was did everything to protect them and cover it up for 50 years then there would be a BIG problem and again I’d want to know about it.
Can you give me a figure for how many teachers have been accused of sexual misconduct and are still teaching? I guaratnee if the number is above 0 it’s in a Red State and the teacher is fighting agains “cancel culture”.

Besides - I am not focusing on Churches - you are. You keep wanting to forgive the unvforgivable and try to make false equivalency. Like % of moslesting Teachers = % of molesting Priests - when it isn’t.
“A very miniscule amount of teachers have sex with kids. So let’s just stop talking about religious leaders. Let’s talk about the very misniscule % of trnasgendered who are grooming instead. We just absolutely cannot look at the large numbers in religion and instead we have to look at miniscule numbers elsewhere”

1601

For anyone sitting on the fence regarding their political views, here’s a little Sam Harris controversy that should help you make up your minds once and for all. The gist of the controversy is covered within the first four minutes:
RAW: Sam, Bam, Thank You, Ma’am

The original complete interview with Harris:
Sam Harris: Trump, Religion, Wokeness

Harris talks about the Trump University scandal as being worse than anything that could be in Hunter Biden’s laptop. He says it with a straight face, as if we’re supposed to take this him seriously as one of America’s great intellectuals. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

1602

Really glad that Sam owned his personal agenda. Guess the long talks were simply mental masturbation.

1603

Little Qanon Conspiracy Theory for the afternoon…

1604

It’s worth picking apart further, Harris’s sanctimonious, pseudo-intellectual drivel. It’s perverse when you take a closer look. At 1:20 in Sam Harris, Trump, Religion, Wokeness he says that the George Floyd killing is one of those life-changing moments of moral urgency and meaning. Meanwhile, the brutal police slaying of a white man on his knees pleading for his life (Daniel Shaver), not to mention other police slayings of people who were unarmed (Justine Damond, Tony Timpa) is just fine by him. [I’ve posted on these topics before in this forum]

The police brutality continues, the latest being in Arkansas. Of course that will be just fine with Sammy, because the victim was just a whitey.

In a previous life, I used to count myself among the left. This TDS-sufferer masquerading as a venerated American intellectual, however, marks a turning point for me. When the left told me that Trump was lying, I’d pause, look back across the evidence and agree that yeah, ok, but worse than any other politician? I now look at Harris’s comments, and it’s conclusive… the left, the ones that side with him, are so full of shitsky, it’s clear that they just make things up as they go along. My conclusion, thanks to Harris, is that his brand of left always lie, they lie about Trump lying, they lie about whatever suits their agenda, they lie to make events fit with their narrative, they lie about the weather if it supports their agenda (doubt this? Climate change, yeah I’ve seen them lie about the funking weather, too). Always. They lie when you see their lips moving.

Trump, meanwhile lies like any other politician lies… it’s not nice, but thankfully, he’s no worse than any other that has gone before. It’s just business as usual.

Most disturbingly, the left will lie to steal an election. Sammy tells us so, and he’s good with that.

1605

Sam Harris is a good example of “Waking Up” being along a scale.
I’ve noticed the term “Waking Up” is used to mean whatever level the person is at.

  • Mostly for the Right, “Waking Up” is anti-illuminati. So waking up against Amber disguised as something else, like Green. So waking up against Hillary Clinton, for example.
  • For the left, “Waking Up” is also used quite a lot against Amber. So waking up to racism.

Both of these interpretations of Waking Up are an intellectual recognition. My opinion is that they are mis-named and are actually “Growing Up”. They are intellectual realizations and not spiritual transformations. Both sides also have quite a great deal of hypocrisy and finger pointing and refusing to recognize their hypocrisy.

Sam Harris also has a “Waking Up” app. In this meaning, waking up is intended to be a spiritual transformation. In this case, it is successful perhaps with the most spiritually dead individuals. It’s pretty lightweight and beginner level.

Where he goes completely wrong is trying to mix his political opinions into waking up as a spiritual transformation. But, he isn’t alone in this. It has been the trend for thousands of years that spiritual leaders will piggy back on minor spiritual awakening as some kind of support that their political opinions are more correct than the group they dislike.

My summary is Sam Harris is more or less similar to 1,000,000 other people on both the left and the right and also globally who are selling a biased political opinion as spirituality.

Where I disagree with you is that this is not a “fence”. We have more options than to be just on one side or the other. Sam Harris being who Sam Harris is does not mean Trump is innocent of all criminal wrongdoing, for example.