Also while the right is focused on defending one Trump scandal after another, Liberal legislation sails through congress with barely even a mention and Trump Conservatives seem to give zeros F’s about actual Conservative Economic Policies. Defend Trump and attack Liberals seems to be the only thing that matters.
And there is also this showing that focusing on Trump could very well jeopardize the 2022 Red Wave that @FermentedAgave has been counting on for the past 2 years.
MAGA Primary wins are definitely polarizing. Not quite to Rashida Talib, Ilhan Omar polarizing, but polarizing none the less.Will be interesting here in Blue Arizona how things shake out. The GOP hasn’t fielded the strongest candidates in several Senate races - Walker in GA, Dr. Jersey in PA. But if the polling holds, they are always several points “optimistic” for Democrats. If that holds true, NV, GA will flip with all the GOP reelections holding GOP. We’ll see.
One thing I noticed is the the latest Fox polls are showing Democrats up a few points. Wonder if Fox is trying to put a nail in the CNN coffin and try to pull some of their viewers? NewsMax is seemingly doing well at least online as the new MAGA channel.
Latest Trafalgar polls (most accurate) show GOP up by a few points in most races, which equates to easy Wins if the polling.
Tsibaka (MAGA) just might beat Murkowski (Neocon) in AK. Murkowski has a lot of Bidenaggage to deal with.
The thing is that both those candidates won, lol.
Ilhan Omar won in 2018 by a landslide and Donald Trump lost in Minnesota in both the election before and the following election. So I don’t see her as very polarizing to Minnesotans at all. Minnesotans have voted for the Democrat Presidential candidate since 1976.
Similarly, while Trump did take Michigan in 2016, Rashida Talib won in 2018 (after Trump) and then Trump lost Michigan in 2020 after she was elected. So I would argue that Trump was the polarizing influence in Michigan and allowed Rashida Talib to be elected in the first place.
I think you would probably like those two names to be more polarizing than they actually are in the states where they were elected.
Agreed. Trump is more polarizing than the Squad. I appreciate your local lens.
Totally agree with you there.
Harris cites Trump University as a scandal worse than anything on Hunter Biden’s laptop. Yes, it’s seedy, but these kinds of misrepresentations in business dealings happen all the time. That doesn’t make them right, but is the alleged criminality of the Trump University scandal of the same scale as that of this corrupt oligarchy, with puppet Biden with dementia as front-man, conducting its treasonous agenda to destroy America on everything from aiding and abetting invasion at the borders, to a corrupt FBI that is now operating as the oligarchy’s default Stasi police? This oligarchy represents a multi-tiered justice system where rampant BLM and Antifa riots are peaceful protest, while January 6 civil disobedience and property trespass, with Ray Epps Fed plant attempting to encourage something more sinister, is insurrection. This faceless, anonymous oligarchy is behind systemic breakdown and cultural collapse. Who is it that constitutes this invisible oligarchy? Who is leading America? We don’t know. We do know, however, that’s it’s neither Joe Biden nor Kamala Harris.
Yeah, right, so Harris wants us to believe that Trump University scandal eclipses the discovery of corpses of children in Hunter’s basement, “like a firefly to the sun” [sic]. His hyperbole is for effect, but it falls flat, for him, because its real impact is in drawing a spotlight to the derangement of the TDS-afflicted left who clearly cannot think rationally.
Joe Biden is implicated in corruption in references to The Big Guy, on Hunter’s laptop. That’s pretty seedy, and while the FBI Stasi head investigations, don’t expect answers to be forthcoming. Innocent till proven guilty and all that. But this unproven stuff is only a small part of the picture in comparison to the sheer scale of the rot that is destroying the fabric of American culture.
So Harris is fine with a stolen election. He’s fine with a corrupt oligarchy that is destroying the cultural fabric from top to bottom, but regards Trump University misrepresentations as a horrendous evil that eclipses everything else? Really? I can’t fathom how anyone takes this sanctimonious, TDS-afflicted twat seriously.
Now if anyone still insists that Trump’s criminal wrong-doing is of a comparable scale, then I’d appreciate specific examples. He’s on record as a ruthless businessman. He’s not shy of suing people who go against him. But if people are going to call him a criminal, I would appreciate specific references to where he’s been charged and convicted of a crime. Innocent till proven guilty, just like the Big Guy. Have any convictions come as a consequence of this Trump University scandal that has Harris all bent out of shape?
Out-of-court settlements (Trump University) may be construed as admissions of guilt (Bill Clinton averted rape charges with out-of-court settlements, so the strategy is not confined to Trump or the right). They provide a means of averting formal criminal charges… innocent till proven guilty. So if people are going to call Trump a criminal, please back up your claims with references to where he’s been charged and convicted.
Again, let’s put this into perspective. Misrepresentations in business, making promises and not delivering on them, happen all the time. I myself have had property misappropriated by a firm that avoided fulfilling its obligations to me by claiming bankruptcy. Misrepresentations in business are a part of the risk of doing business. That does not make them ok, but they pose negligible threat to national security. They are of a different caliber of crime to that of an invisible, DeepSwamp oligarchy out to destroy a nation. Who is leading America? That’s a serious, non-trivial question. Trump University is the evil that gets TDS-afflicted Harris all bent out of shape, while he ignores the big-picture, integral implications of what has taken place under Biden. He has zero credibility, none. He’s a complete fraud, and those of the left who continue to associate with him are, likewise, frauds.
@steljarkos
Why is Sam Harris so important suddenly?
He’s just some guy who made a meditation app.
We could talk for days about various youtube personalities who said this or said that, but why is it relevant? Are you wanting to infer something like Sam Harris is wrong so therefore 100% of some unrelated action or some group is right or wrong?
Some guy said something hyperbolic. Unfortunately it’s become the norm that to get attention of an anudience, some kind of hyperbole is necessary (aka clickbait)
I think it’s a bit extreme to claim hyperbole makes someone a fraud. That itself is hyperbolic, lol. Likewise just making up that anyone is a fraud who associates with a person who said something hyperbolic - is pretty extreme.
In these kinds of discussions I always heare Yoda from Star Wars saying “Only the Sith think in absolutes”.
Beginning at 11:02, these guys on Triggernometry again:
That in many ways is a classic liberal position, because they believe that the system is good, except the problem is that every once in a while, it throws up people, like Trump, etc, and they risk destroying the whole system.
As the guys continue to explain, everything looks honky-dory (while the right people are in power), they never think about conspiracies because, quoting one of their previous interviewees (Gideon Rachman), “all the people I like were always in charge.”
And therein lies the crux of the problem. The left doesn’t like Trump. They don’t want him in charge. He’s not of their tribe. That’s tough for them, because if they are to accept a system and its principles (the US Constitution), then they need to get over it, because you can’t have one set of laws to govern one group of people and a different set of laws to govern another.
The left doesn’t like Trump. That’s all it is. He’s broken no laws, he’s not done anything unconstitutional. It’s just that the left hate him. That’s what it comes down to. It has a name. TDS.
And that’s why this Harris interview is so valuable. Harris has been an icon of the left for years. This interview establishes with crystal clarity, the basis of the left’s motivation to destroy Trump. They have no basis other than hate. Quite ironic coming from the tribe that advocates for tolerance, diversity and inclusion. Their motto should be “Diverse opinions are fine, so long as they agree with ours.”
Just now stumbled on this article from the New York Post by Miranda Devine that beautifully outlines the hatred - NOT reason - that motivates TDS sufferers. Devine writes:
Trump University was an ill-fated grift Trump launched a decade before he ran for office and for which he paid $25 million in legal settlements. It’s nothing to be proud of, but if Harris wants to get into a corruption contest, it pales by comparison with a president potentially compromised by millions of dollars in payments from China to the Biden family, as documented on the laptop and elsewhere.
Exactly. What I mentioned previously, but from another perspective.
The antipathy to Trump among the elites is more about visceral class revulsion and a fear of contagion than his morality or politics.
Yup.
Harris continues confidently: “That doesn’t answer the people who say, ‘It’s still completely unfair to not have looked at the laptop in a timely way and to have shut down the New York Post Twitter account; that’s a left-wing conspiracy to deny the presidency to Donald Trump.’ Absolutely it was, absolutely. But I think it was warranted.”
hehehe what a jackass.
Having absorbed the snooty European critique of America, they denounce their fellow citizens to prove their own virtue. Every time they denounce Trump and his supporters as subhuman threats to democracy, they demonstrate that they are a refined species of American unfortunately forced to inhabit this vast land with a bunch of white supremacists and nascent domestic terrorists with bad teeth and dangerous ideas.
Absolutely.
The propaganda media of the left amplifies and twists this attitude in hateful ways. Watch MSNBC for a day with its increasingly extreme defamations of Trump and his supporters, and you can’t help but recall the radio station in Rwanda that blared out regular denunciations of the minority Tutsi as “cockroaches” in the prelude to the 1994 genocide.
History tells us where dehumanization always ends.
Saying it as it is. I want to shout this lady a drink.
I suppose I myself also have Hitler and Mussolini derangement syndrome.
Tell me - what defines it as a syndrome vs just not wanting a bad person in a position of power?
The Crux of the problem is seeing this as right vs left. There are plenty of reasons for “true” 1990’s conservatives to dislike Trump as well and not want him in charge. What Trump Conservatives want is exactly what you are accusing of Liberals - one set of laws for one and another set of laws for another. That is why it is so hilarious that Trump made a big deal about a making a law specifically against Hillary Clinton and keeping her out of office and now he himself is trying to get out from under it.
Trump has, in fact broken many laws. Grabbing a woman by the pussy is, in fact illegal. That was even before day 1 of his presidency. All the way to even today, his defense against FBI investigation is based on him violating Campaign Finance Laws. He says he is not running for president - so he can avoid campaign finance laws, but his defense that the FBI should not investigate him is partially that he is the front runner for 2022’s Republican nomination.
I could go on for pages.
Here is the crux of the problem: Some people don’t like Liberals. They have signed up as volunteer culture warriors on the Anti-left.
So we have culture warriors on the right and culture warriors on the left and both these groups are unwilling to see basic truths and facts.
Where Trumps movement will fail in 2022 and again in 2024 is what I pointed out to @FermentedAgave. Independents and people who still have the capacity to think are just tired of Trump. People who might have voted for him once or twice but don’t like him are getting more and more reasons to dislike him ever day. Even from FOX News - who is also tired of him. The Red Wave may very well stall and be completely 100% due to Trump’s numerous character flaws and failed leadership ability - just as the massive failure of the Republican party in 2020 was 100% due to Trump’s poor leadership.
The second one is more significant than it would first appear. Educated white suburbs are the demographic dumping Trump the fastest. They carried him in 2016 and he lost in 2020 when he lost a portion of them. Since Jan 6, 2021 support for Trump has been in a steady decline in this demographic.
Here is a story about the well-known Leftist, Mitch McConnel and his Trump Derangement Syndrome:
In 2015 I was walking to the cafe for a cup of coffee with two co-workers, one of which was one of my closest co-workers. The other asked, “So Agave, are you voting for Hillary?”. I answered, “No”. She then replied with a big grin, “So you’re a misogynist then.”
I was shocked at the offensive statement so asked, “What did you say?”
She repeated “So you are a misogynist then.”
To which I replied, “I don’t agree with Hillary’s politics.”
This was my first personal experience with the “New Leftists” and their “win at all costs” mentality. What’s ironic is I didn’t vote for Trump either.
Is what we have now in society bringing us closer to Teal/Integral, or regressive compared to the days of civil political discourse?
Yeah, and when you talk to Trump supporters they accuse you of all kins of silly words. I dealt with similar people on the right since the 1990’s. Just substitute “mysoginyst” for the preferred right wing hate name of the day.
I don’t think political discourse was ever civil. That’s why when I was a child you never discussed religion or politics.
Then baby boomers started breaking that rule. In the 1990’s it was generally people who listened to conservative talk radio who were most outspoken.
Before that society was even more segregated. Lutherans didn’t even socialize with Catholics and the racial divide was even greater.
So where does that leave us? Going back in time is obviously not a solution because it was even worse then.
Depends on how you define “bad person”. To the Harris-left, these days, anyone who doesn’t agree with them is a bad person, and that’s what turns their obsession into a syndrome. That’s what all their virtue-signaling is about, it’s about showing that they have the moral high-ground. As per @FermentedAgave’s example, it’s the identity politics. While most any political leaning, these days, plays into identity politics, it’s the hypocrisy of the Harris-left that takes it to the level of a syndrome. You know, “Diversity of opinions are fine, so long as they agree with ours.”
I vaguely recall something along these lines in the heat of his political campaign. Was he serious? Or was it just empty rhetoric in the heat of political campaigning? Context required. If he were serious, then it’s nonsense because the separation of powers blocks him from realizing it, anyway. It’s just not possible. So either he was ignorant of the separation of powers principle, or he was just playing with her, trying to get a rise out of her. He’s a bit of a troll, you do realize?
Sometimes women, if they like some exciting charismatic guy who has impressed them, would love to be grabbed by the pussy. And maybe that was the point that Trump was making in his secretly recorded banter with someone else. Is it illegal? Technically, if actualized, yes. But is banter about it, in the context of exploring women’s sexual nature, illegal? Of course not. In anything like this, context is required. And because Trump was not convicted for grabbing a woman by the pussy, ever, we have to conclude that it was just idle banter between two men, exploring the secret dimensions of women’s true sexual nature.
I recall a comment from Trump’s son Eric, along the lines that his father was never convicted for so much as a traffic infringement. So your assertion that Trump has broken many laws requires you to back that up. Records please. Otherwise what you are alleging amounts to slander. In the absence of any formal conviction of any kind, it would appear that Trump has not broken any laws whatsoever. Trump University scandal? Maybe. Maybe he got away with “something”. But he was not charged with anything, so there it ends. No record, innocent till proven guilty, he’s not broken any laws. If he has, the onus is on you to prove it. And meanwhile, while your at it, you might like to also prove that Bill Clinton perpetrated rape, just to show that you’re impartial.
The FBI Clown-show today, under Biden, has become a joke. The Biden’s FBI Stasi are out to get Trump, so this is irrelevant, doesn’t prove anything.
Not surprising, given how Harris-Liberals constantly try to take things out of context, painting those whom they disagree with as criminals, even when they’ve never perpetrated any crime, and have no record of any criminal conduct anywhere, ever.
So are we elevating to the Teal Noosphere or backsliding into Orange-ish/Amber-ish regression?
I think the obvious answer to me is “both”.
Some people seem determined to backslide. They want to close their eyes and ride that Trump slip and slide all the way down to Oblivion. Some people chose the slide on the left some the one on the right.
Part of backsliding is a desire to force others to our views. Both extremes do this. But once we establish this is Amber, then it’s absurd and counterproductive to join in on the opposite end of the extreme. Amber is is Amber whether our political outlook is the left or the right.
The only real thing we can do is make sure we ourselves are not backsliding. Yes, Green activism often seems to backslide to Amber. The answer of course isn’t to never enter Green Pluralism. Part of the answer is to spot why Green Activism fails - then to embrace Green Pluralism and not do the parts that fail, lol. Then quickly get beyond Green because Green is a tough place to be in an Amber / Red world.
Let’s take grabbing women by the pussy as an example. This is an Infrared Archaic urge men have. There may also be an Archaic Urge in some women to have their pussy grabbed. I also have other Archaic urges and many individuals in this closeted society have reciprocal urges. Here’s the thing - I can’t just go and execute those brutal urges on the general public, my secretary, or people I hold a position of power over. If I ever have the desire to do those Archaic acts, there are BDSM clubs to meet others who also have those interests.
But regardless of whether a person “wants it” - I cannot just tie up people, beat them and rape them. That is illegal unless they overtly agree that they want to receive that.
So we have a situation where a man in a position of power wanted more power and grabs women by the pussy. The argument of the “backsliders” is that women "want it’. They like having their pussies grabbed. So therefore let’s ignore 10,000 years of social development and say it’s ok. Tomorrow let’s tie them up and gang rape them and use the reasoning that “some women like that” to make it ok. Sure. Let’s regress to a society where Archaic urges are acceptable. Good idea. (sarcasm)
Does this mean that you have to drink the Left Cool Aide? No. You just have to recognize what is a blatantly absurd position and when taken by the leader of the country, that it is really bad for the country as a whole. I have a ton of LGBT friends. Does that mean I have to be LGBT? no, lol. I can accept their political opinions as valid or invalid, depending on the merits of those positions.
Several years ago I had some friends who were into some really far-out “Green” natural birthing beliefs. They ended up having CPS get involved. They were friends and I am mostly against CPS most of the time, but in their case I was like “Ummmm … that’s a little extreme, there.” and they got upset and are not friends now, lol. Their beliefs were not appropriate for our modern age. (It had to do with not cutting off the placenta and a few other things).
We cannot elevate others to the “Teal Noosphere”. It can’t be done. The only thing we can do is at least try to be in that place ourselves. Sometimes we may succeed and other times we fail, just like learning any other new thing. But one way to surely fail is to go directly to Archaic, Red, Amber or even Orange because we are angry about what “the other side” is doing or saying. Because at Turquoise there isn’t “the other side”. The idea of an opponent to be against is not possible at Turquoise and Teal is a space to learn and practice that.
I think safe to assume the vast majority of people in society don’t often act upon the criminal behaviors you’ve discussed. The overwhelming majority of people in western societies do have their archaic urges under control.
Perhaps we might look at the lives that the majority of people DO live. Perhaps we can investigate what Green Pluralism is, in the real world, through a few examples.
Religious Worship: Is a church being filled with every “identity” that we hear so much about today - LGBTQIA+, Black, LatinX, People of Color, White, Asian… It’s a Church, so obviously Christianity is a commonality of community at some level for everyone in this case. Is this community “Pluralistic”?
Political Party: After these people walk out of church they may each be heading to the Democratic, Libertarian, Republican or Communist Party volunteer events and fund raisers. We can look into, as an example, the Republican Party event and see Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, and all races represented. Is this community “Pluralistic”?
Social Clubs/Sports Teams: Someone goes to the golf, kanu, rock climbing, cycling, yoga, or running club with people of all walks of life, races, identities, religions. Is this community “Pluralistic”?
Family: Then we can follow our “average” family into their home where the husband and wife are from different races, different linguistic groups, speaking different native tongues, freely sharing cultural traditions. The family sends money back to the “old country” to support both family and unknowns that need support. Is this family “Pluralistic”?
Is it talking about Pluralism what makes one a certain altitude, or is it how they live their lives that would make them Pluralistic?
Do some certain archaic urges disqualify someone from being Pluralistic?
Is utilization of a “new lingo” a prerequisite for attaining higher altitudes or can someone through being-inhabiting-living be considered Pluralistic?
Likewise are some Pluralisms worth more on the developmental score card?
Obviously it is how they live their lives. It doesn’t matter at all if a person is Christian or if they go to Church, but if they live their lives like Christ then I would say they are far beyond pluralistic. Other spiritual traditions as well. The point being that membership in a group does not suddenly give anyone any status. Republican or Democrat are irrelevant, as is religious affiliation. Yes, it is possible for a Republican to act like Christ, but the party affiliation is the irrelevant part. There are far more non-Christlike members of both parties - or we would not be in this situation.
No - the example I was giving was specifically a man in power (Donald Trump) acting out his urges, saying it was ok, and a large percentage of the population saying it was ok for him to act out his urges because “some women want to be grabbed by the pussy”.
It is specifically the acting out of the Archaic urges and blindness to it that are a huge problem.
However - I believe some Christian denominations will say you are going to hell if you have those urges.
No. However, being “allergic” to such lingo reveals a resistance to the concepts. Why did people get upset when they first heard “Black Lives Matter”. It seems a no brainer. But some people fly into a rage at the idea and want to say “what about me?” lol
I would say so, yes.
Sexual harassment, racial harassment are probably worse than not using invented pronouns. Lynching and cross burning could be deemed as worse. Plotting to kidnap a Governor, sexual assault (aka grabbing) and so forth. Yes, there are many that are far worse than others.
It’s funny to me how you continually make this dig. But also brings back from fond memories of my single days dating some very naughty women. Lots of fun was had by all. Guess I am not famous enough to get sued over it now. LOL…
If the majority of the population is happy calling a cheeseburger a cheeseburger, are they “resistant” to Veganism by refusing to call a cheeseburger a murderburger per the Vegan communities desire/demand?
Should lingo for the sake of lingo always be adopted?
Knowing what you know now, do you consider “Black Lives Matter” a Pluralistic organization with Pluralistic leadership with Pluralistic goals?
These aren’t Pluralisms but crimes that very few people in our society commit. Obviously it’s safe to assume someone isn’t Pluralistic if they are lynching people.
Are there aspects of Pluralism that rank higher than others, similar perhaps to the Intersectionality rankings?
Are you more Pluralistic, essentially more Integral, if you marry an Athiest, Muslim, Transsexual, Democrat, Illegal Alien, Black or Asian?
This is my exact point.
The rest of what I am saying you are either deliberately choosing to ignore or subconsciously supressing it but either way I don’t see the benefit of talking in circles ore repeating myself.
Seems I struck a nerve when asking for your Pluralism Rankings. Simple discussion on who is/isn’t and how/why they are/aren’t Pluralistic, which leads to Integral.
New Yorkers have been groping each other in clubs for decades with both gropers and gropees grinning with drug induced sexual euphoria. I hear even homosexuals and gender fluids do the same in clubs as well. Police have been concocting conspiracies in order to “save the day” for millennia. Criminals have been committing both heinous and petty crimes since dawn of humanity. And all of humanity deals with these archaic urges best they can, or not.
