First off, I want to say that it’s okay if we disagree about politics, there are hundreds of other things we can talk about where we would likely find tons of agreement and shared reality. I say that only because people often get too activated by these kinds of conversations, and end up enacting each other only through their own political lens, which contributes to the overall fragmentation of our culture and society and adds more heat to the civil Cold War.
That said — I think you’ve been subject to some misinformation around Trump. It concerns me a bit that you have such strong feelings about him, but didn’t already know about the fake electors, his kids’ theft from their own childrens’ charity, Manafort’s role in “russiagate”, etc. Most likely because whatever information terrain you are plugged into, ignores those scandals and tries to distract with manufactured scandals of their own.
As a result, any authority that would be in a position to actually identify Trump’s corruption — the FBI, the DOJ, the media — is an authority you will instantly dismiss. Which, you have to admit, is pretty convenient for Trump. But if that same FBI, DOJ, and media was prosecuting Hillary or Hunter, I am guessing you would believe them immediately. It seems to me you may have double standards here.
Also, we know that Trump cheated on his wife with a porn star, right after his wife gave birth to his child. Which was pretty much all the character reference I needed to judge this guy’s obvious moral failings.
“ Believing that the election was stolen is different to lying that the election was stolen. Trump’s heart-felt belief was that the election was stolen.”
“Believing” something without evidence — and pushing your unsubstantiated beliefs from the most powerful seat on the planet — is pathological and incredibly dangerous behavior. We never would have tolerated this from any other President. If Obama came out and said “I believe Hillary actually won, and I’m having Biden declare victory for her, using these fake electors we are sending from multiple states”, you would want to put that fucker up against the wall This is also exactly the behavior you would expect from someone with narcissistic personality disorder, which Trump clearly has.
“But I think it was warranted?” These are the kinds of people that Trump is up against.
Aren’t you doing the exact same for Trump right now?
Sure he lied about the election being stolen, but I think it was warranted. Deep state is always coming after him!
Sure he illegally sent fake electors to Congress, but I think it was warranted. These are just the times we live in!
Sure he defrauded people with Trump University, but I think it was warranted. It just wasn’t a very big deal!
Sure he said he grabs women by the pussy, but I think that was warranted. Have you seen how many skanks are out there?
“Trump was exposed to the results-oriented world of competitive negotiations, and he developed an instinct for spotting frauds.”
Before he was President, Trump was already widely known as a fraud.
“Trump believed what he saw, felt certain of it, and so his belief that the election was stolen was not a lie, even remotely.”
And he was wrong. I don’t disagree that he likely believed his own lie, that’s what narcissistic personality disorders do. But as President, he has a greater responsibility to the Constitution itself. The moment the courts rejected all the phony lies about the stolen election, he should have conceded gracefully instead of continuing to follow the My Pillow Guy’s obviously fraudulent claims.
“As for the claim that his lies are greater than other politicians? I’ve worked in government for a time. I’ve been exposed to the subtle, behind-the-scenes lies that manipulate agendas within bureaucracies.”
I think you countered this yourself, when you then said:
“If you interpret this as an apologist making excuses, then you clearly don’t understand the intricacies of strategic management.”
“As alleged by Biden’s FBI Stasi? Doesn’t mean anything. Empty.”
The FBI is still headed by Trump’s own pick, Christopher Wray. And in this case, the “deep state” that is taking Trump down for stealing confidential documents are librarians and archivists, which I think is kinda funny considering Trump’s well-known literary talents
“The essential point that I want to make is that all-too-often the far left make allegations, and when you look more closely into it, factoring in the broader context, it always turns out to be fluff motivated by wishful thinking.”
Yep, that definitely happens. Especially when those allegations are coming from social media. We see the exact same thing happening on the right, which is how we get personality-cult BS like Qanon. But it doesn’t mean that all observations and accusations about Trump’s corruption can be automatically added to the “deep state conspiracy” pile.
Here’s a question for you — if Trump was truly as fraudulent as I very clearly see him to be, how would you know it? What sources would be capable of convincing you? What would it take for you to see that Trump’s “plausible deniability” isn’t very plausible at all?
“Trump kids stole money? I’d have to look into it. But what are the odds that it was sloppy, careless oversight on their part, far removed from anything resembling cynical intent and self-interest?”
I mean, even if we allow for this plausible deniability (which I think is likely more true than not, it wasn’t embezzlement as much as it was “self-dealing” and misappropriating funds), it still shows that these guys are totally incompetent and should not be allowed anywhere near the levers of power.
“Manafort? This goes back a bit, old news. Trump was rather careless with whom he chose as allies. He had issues with giving and receiving loyalty.”
Strange, isn’t it, that Trump fully surrounded himself with career criminals? We have Manafort on one side, and Roger Stone on another. Roger, of course, is pretty much synonymous with “deep state” and “swampland” corruption.
(Also interesting to note that both Stone and Manafort seem to be involved in some fairly disturbing sexual depravity behind the scenes. Manafort has been accused by his own daughter of forcing his wife into gangbangs [she’s even posted the private emails]. And of course Stone is a well known DC swinger. Which is fine, of course, assuming it’s consensual. Trump himself cheated on his wife with a porn star while caring for their newborn baby. It’s interesting to me that there seems to be some dark sex magic in the background of this particular group, even more so when we consider Trump’s prior friendship with Epstein, about whom he said, *"I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life.” Kinda puts all those Qanon claims into perspective. Give me a monogamous family man like Obama any day of the week.)
“Harris is not some invisible unknown.”
Sam Harris is a well known name, yes, but as far as I know he has very little real influence in politics. He is not known for being a political pundit, he’s known for being the anti-mythic religion guy.
“Trump is obliged to operate within a framework, follow due process. He can’t just decide to jail Hillary and Hunter on whim.”
I agree! The thing is, four years are more than enough time for this due process to play itself out. And yet, it went nowhere, because it had nowhere to go.
“Trump was a newby, coming from a business environment, and having to grasp the big-picture nuances of politics is a very steep learning curve”
Here’s that double standard. Trump is just an innocent baby, pure as freshly laid snow, fighting heroically against that corrupt deep state FBI, which happens to be led by Wray who Trump himself personally appointed. This feels very much like the sort of “reality distortion field” that malignant narcissists are able to project. I would know, I’ve dealt with some of them in this space over the last two decades
It’s a very strange thing, because before Trump, the FBI in no way had a reputation as being a left-leaning organization. But now they are, because they dare to accuse Trump of committing crimes.
We don’t need to agree about all this brother, we are just two drops in the ocean and everyone has a right to their own worldview. But I am hoping that open dialogue can help move us closer to some sort of shared political reality.