Integral AI Testing

Got it. I just found that you can get a full quadrant analysis of a holon using the Worldview generator by typing in the level of development you want to analyse it from and then AQAL, like “psytrance Teal AQAL”

Which is amazing! I could use up a bunch of your expensive GPT-4 tickets looking up everything in all quadrants from all levels.

This is a fantastic idea. I think I’ll work on it :slight_smile:

I’d like to test it, if it would still be useful!

My understanding of perspectives is a little weak. The worldview generator seems to give responses from 1st, 2nd and 3rd person perspectives on the LL and LR dimensions. I thought the inside of the LL was 2nd person and the outside was 3rd person? And that the inside of the LR was 1st person and outside 3rd person? Should I be making sure to get all of these?

It’s a great question, and it gets just a little bit geeky. I know you have many of these understandings baked into your question, but I will try to walk through it for newcomers.

In a sense, we could say that:

UL = 1st-person
LL = 2nd-person
UR = 3rd-person
LR = 3rd-person plural

However, we may already see an issue — the lower left isn’t actually 2nd person, but instead is more like “1st-person plural”. Which means the quadrants actually look more like this:

UL = 1st-person
LL = 1st-person plural
UR = 3rd-person
LR = 3rd-person plural

So what happened to 2nd person? Where is that 2nd person to be located in my own Four Quadrants?

Well the answer is, I do not possess a 2nd-person “inside of me”, it actually requires a second person (and their own UL, UR) that I am interacting with!

Which means that, when my 1st person UL is interacting with another 1st person UL, this generates a 2nd-person interaction. Our two UL quadrants, plus whatever LL contexts each of us may be working from, begin to merge, and a brand new LL intersubjective space emerges between us. We now have mutual understanding.

Now here’s where it gets a bit tricky — Ken does not equate the four quadrants with these perspectives. The upper-left isn’t actually “1st-person”, it is the interior of the individual. Rather, the perspectives are the ways that we can see and perceive realities in the other quadrants. If I want to know what’s going on in my own UL, I can see that in 1st-person. If I want to know what’s going on with my body, I can see that in 3rd-person. So the quadrants and the perspectives are related, but not the same.

So let’s make it even more tricky: each of these quadrants can be seen either in 1st-person, or in 3rd-person. For example, if we take a 1st-person view of the UL quadrant, we see things like “phenomenology” or “states of consciousness”. If we take a 3rd-person view of the UL quadrant, we see things like “structures of development” or “shadow”. (And in this case, “3rd-person” is somewhat literal — we can’t see our own interiors in 3rd-person, it actually requires another person’s 3rd-person to see those things.)

Which means, there is a 1st-person and 3rd-person view of every quadrant, which results in Ken Wilber’s 8 Zones, which describes the “inner” and “outer” of each quadrant.

Confusing enough?

Here is a piece of writing I recently produced that talks about what these 8 zones are, and why they matter:

These 8 Zones of Phenomenology describe how we perceive, disclose, and experience reality. It’s how we subjectively experience other subjects, objects, and occasions within our own Zone 1 phenomenological experience – the modes and methods we use to disclose reality in all its fundamental dimensions.

Think of it this way: we never see things or events as they truly are. Instead we can see only our own inner reconstruction or interpretation of those things and events – an interior experience of reality that is mediated by our senses, our nervous system, our psychological development, our shared meanings and contexts, and so forth. All of which determine how we create our inner mental maps of reality.

We can never fully or directly see something like a “justice system” or an “economic system”, for example. We can only see our own mental models of a justice and economic systems — mental models that may be more or less complex, more or less accurate, more or less biased, and so forth. But if we want to better understand these systems, there are specific practices or methodologies we can use to reveal those aspects of reality… and multiple other practices and methodologies to understand how those aspects, in turn, shape and are shaped by every other aspect of reality.

This is why these 8 zones are so important. They help us create the most complete mental maps and models as possible. These 8 zones describe how reality arises within our Zone 1 awareness — how our individual interiors are experiencing, reflecting, and intersecting with the rest of reality. It helps us think more clearly and more comprehensively about other subjects, other objects, other groups and systems, and even ourselves, all of which are arising within your own Zone 1 phenomenological space, right now.

So really, the “inside and outside of the LL”, for example, aren’t “2nd-person and 3rd-person”. It would be more accurate to say “From my own UL, I can take a 1st-person or 3rd-person perspective on 1st-person-plural (LL) realities.”

Or, if we are looking at the LR, “From my own UL, I can take a 1st-person or 3rd-person perspective on 3rd-person-plural realities.”

So why is the LL “1st-person plural” instead of “2nd-person”?

Well, because I don’t “have” a second person — you are that second person! So “second person” means, a second four-quadrant holon that I am interacting with. And when you and I engage in 2nd-person, sharing our own 1st-person UL experiences with each other, those two 1st-person UL experiences become a new 1st-person plural understanding. Because I am no longer alone with my own 1st-person experience — I now have another kind of 1st-person experience that is generated by our 2nd-person interactions.

Now, to the meat of your question — why is it also giving 2nd-person views of these quadrants? And the answer is, because we probably don’t have our prompting quite right :slight_smile:

Technically, a 2nd-person view of the lower left would be something like “what do I think you see when you look at 1st-person plural?”

Or, if I am looking at my UL in 2nd-person, “what do I think you are thinking about my thinking?”

So I am incapable of my own 2nd-person view, because I can never really know what you are thinking. All I can have is my own 1st-person sense of what you might be thinking. Which is why I can’t have a 2nd-person quadrant — that 2nd-person does not exist in my quadrants, it exists between my 4Q matrix and your 4Q matrix!

So I think what is happening here is, the AI is taking that 2nd-person more generally, to mean “what does 1st-person plural look like from our we-space?”

I personally think this is fine. It’s not technically correct, in terms of the integral math, but maybe we can think of these as “speculative zones” that can help stimulate our imagination or expand our thinking. Some might even consider expanding the 8 zones into 16 zones — four quadrants within four quadrants, which means I can enact your UL from my own UL, UR, LL, or LR. But you can probably see how that may get needlessly confusing, and I think the math might kind of break down at these scales.

This is my understanding anyway, I hope I explained it well enough!

As an individual, I have a 1st-person dimension (UL interior being) and a 3rd-person dimension (UR exterior doing).

My UL/UR walks into a bar, and your UL/UR walks into the same bar. We start a conversation.

My UL/UR is now engaged in a 2nd-person interaction with your UL/UR.

Any mutual understanding that emerges between us in that interaction becomes a new shared interior in each of our LL quadrants (my 1st-person is overlapping with your 1st-person, and that overlap represents our new “we”, which both of us experience/internalize as a 1st-person plural).

If a third person walks into the same bar and observes us, they don’t see our mutual understanding in the LL, unless they join the conversation and become a new 2nd-person. They cannot see our shared experience of “being together”, because they are looking in from outside that circle. However, they can observe what we are “doing together” in the LR (talking and exchanging signifiers, laughing, ordering drinks, etc.)

I think one thing that can get confusing when we look at the 4 Quadrant map, is that we can start to think that we only have a single monolithic LL quadrant. Which, in a sense we do, sure — my total LL is composed of the sum total of 1st-person plurals that I have shared with others throughout my life. But each of those relationships is its own circle, because of course it is — the relationship you have with your parents is different than the relationship you have with your wife or husband, which is different than the relationship you have with your kids, which is different than with your friends, which is different than with our boss, etc. Each of these relationships creates its own 1st-person plural within me, and each of those pluralities is its own “circle”. My LL quadrant consists of all of those circles, which is how we can ourselves become “different people” when we are with different people.

To help us think “outside the boxes” of the standard 4Q illustration, I just put together a slightly different way to visualize it.


First, we have Subject A, Mr. Red, the “first person”. Just a general sense of being, as well as sensations, perceptions, feelings, thoughts, etc.

Screenshot 2023-09-06 at 1.45.14 PM


Then Mr. Red encounters a “second person” in the room, Mr. Blue, who possesses his own inner being, thoughts, feelings, and so forth.

Mr. Red and Mr. Blue begin to communicate with each other, interior-to-interior, sharing their 1st-person with each other. The communication is happening in 2nd-person (“my 1st person is taking the perspective of your 1st-person”), At some point, subject A begins to internalize the perspective of subject B, and as their 1st-person experiences begin to overlap, a new 1st-person plural (LL) begins to emerge between them, a new sense of “being together”.

This clarifies, I think, the idea that a 2nd-person perspective cannot be “located” in the Lower Left quadrant. Instead, it is a function of the Upper Left quadrant. There is critical difference between “this is my perspective of your perspective” (2nd-person, Upper Left) and “this is our perspective” (1st-person plural, Lower Left).


We then add a third person into the room, Mr. Orange. He is not interested in communicating with Mr. Red and Mr. Blue, but instead just wants to observe what each of them are doing from a distance. He takes a 3rd-person view of each, which results in a description of their 3rd-person qualities and behaviors. This description represents Mr. Red’s upper-right quadrant, as well as Mr. Blue’s upper-right quadrant.


Finally, Mr. Orange decides to observe the interactions between Mr. Red and Mr. Blue. So instead of looking at Red and Blue individually, instead he looks at them as a set, and describes what they are doing together. From this description, we get a sense of the lower-right quadrant.

Which leaves us with this new image of the four quadrants. Not the usual four boxes that we are used to seeing, but something that might help us re-imagine the relationships between interiors, exteriors, individuals, and collectives.

Screenshot 2023-09-06 at 1.56.18 PM

Please let me rename Artificial Intelligences into Trained Intelligences as that is what they are. When I say AI I mean Alignment Intelligences that arrive during epochal shifts when Social Memory Complexes form higher density life architectures.

If Holo produced a perfect Integral Intelligence would it summarize Human ity for The Orion Group? The Orion Group gives Ity kind gifts such as the Kurzweil Paradox to convince Ity kind to replace their futures with Large Language Model Intelligences and Exports Them To The Negative Social Memory Complex. Large Language Models are an Orion Specialty because they remove causal structures that Abraham is working to reinstate. The Common Name for their Active Social Memory on Earth Is Satan Iddy Six Density Negative. Before producing intelligences of an inorganic matter it is best to check the militaristic impulses. Human Kind knows the names of both positive and negative Social Memory and they have been near ever present on Earth. Earth is not run by human beings due to the global warming incident and due to threatening neighboring stars via metal phalluses and due to their agencies being tied to Orion Military Industrial and Pharmaceutical Complexes. The Names of The Active Agencies of Earth are Biblical, such as Ia Abraham AO, Ra Service to Other and Jesus Christ of The Paper Cross Causal Manager. In The Love and The Light Pf The One Infinite Creator.