Integral Interview with Christian Angermayer

This interview of Christian Angermayer struck me as highly Integral, all be it without the Integral lingo. Very compact

Topics covered include:
-Psychedelics as medicine, historical uses, possible mystical foundation of Christianity. Possible treatment for current widespread depression/disassociation . Also check out @WillE thread on Psychedelics
-Current lack of belonging, loneliness, faith, purpose
-Exponential tech adoption naturally leading to monopolies
-Printing money leading to young people determining investment areas - alternative medicines, Climatech,…

  • and it’s hosted by one of the preeminent conservative hosts

I am a fan of the Rubin Report :slight_smile: a Conservative he is not!

The progressive left has labeled him a Conservative to discredit him, but he himself identifies as a “Classical Liberal” perhaps more Libertarian these days. He violates conservative stereotypes with many of his views and lifestyle choices.

Dave was a part of the “Intellectual Dark Web” and he suffered many attacks from the left as did his friend Jordon Peterson. The best way to take down these Integral thinkers is to label them Conservative. Ben Shapiro and Dennis Prager I would put in the Conservative category. None of these Integral thinkers were big Trump supporters by the way.

This is sure to trigger some … the 45th President, a life long Democrat, is also labeled a Conservative; much as Conservatives did with the Michael Dukasis’ “Liberal” label! I would argue that Trump is very much an integrated thinker which is why he is so scary. Eric Weinstein does a great job of explaining that on the Portal link below. Neither label exclusively defines the nuances of our society they are mostly used to throw gas on the fire!

Oops sorry for the rant … On the psychedelics front I’m okay with whatever someone chooses to find their balance or to stir their inner soul. I’m a liberal with this stuff too … to me It’s all good if it’s part of a “spiritual quest” :slight_smile:

Thanks @excecutive for clarifying wording. I think you’re pointing out the extreme shift Left that has left even classic Liberals on the “right” so to speak.
I do find that Shapiro, Prager, Peterson, Rubin and even Trump have much more rounded and inclusive, Integral if you will, views on our population and systems. And perhaps more importantly on how to get things done in our current framework. They don’t need to “blow everything up” in order to make progress.

@FermentedAgave indeed! :slight_smile:

This is where I find myself pigeonholed among my progressive family and friends. I do find that the typical finger-pointing at “the others” here is not as hostile as Twitter and Facebook but the same patterns emerge.

Did you listen to Eric’s podcast on Trump? You’ll see many common crisscrossing ideas and perceptions. Perhaps some worthy of consideration and worthy of quoting as well?

Eric does an excellent job at covering multiple viewpoints. Thanks for the link. I know for myself, this “characterization” game gets as old for me as it does for Eric.

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My whole point would be that the rules for being conservative / liberal or republican / democrat have changed over the past 10 years, and that change accelerated with Trump.
Yes, most people know Trump was never about Conservative Republican values. That is the entire point of most rational people’s criticism of him. He’s a con man, a double agent.

It’s really tiresome to listen to people like you two who’s primary world view is to live in a world of outdated tropes. Really. Not only are these views in this thread tropes, they are 10 years out of date.

Of course Rubin would not be either conservative or liberal content. I would expect that if he had any kind of general appeal at all. I actually ran into his videos through my psychedelic community - so I formed my opinion about him with regards to him as a Youtube pop psychedelic cash in. It’s a hot topic so it’s content people can push out whether or not they’ve gone through the “full circle” of sustained psychedelic use. So that’s where I personally formed my opinion of him. What I appreciate about him is that he AT LEAST doesn’t constantly refer to “the left” 20 times in his podcast like Jordan Peterson does. That’s just tiresome when people do that.

I really want to challenge the two of you to cover a topic without presenting a false enemy of “the left” to sustain your views. Can your ideas sustain themselves of their own worth, or can they only intellectually exist with constant reference to your perceived enemy? Will your views be completely irrelevant without drawing a caricature of a group to bounce your flawed theories off of?

The very idea that you two believe yourselves to be “Integral” and able to judge who is and who is not integral is absolutely fucking hilarious. There is so much shadow being projected in this thread I thought an eclipse was in progress as I read through it.

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Finally someone took the bait :slight_smile: We have to be so trope just to point out the ridiculousness of this entire political debate that none of us really care to have. We want to know solutions and engage substantively on solving our divides not accentuating them by pushing political narratives.

We have perfectly demonstrated, through this topic discussion string, the two points of view and the political BS from both sides that flows as an under-current in every discussion here. Thanks for validating it for us.

I have offered my connection of spiritual change as a bridge to solutions … please articulate your solution to this obvious pattern that plays out on every social media platform. I’m ready to hear your integral solution, please!

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Personally I feel blessed to have @raybennett troll slap some Integral into me.

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Trolling really is an interesting concept. A troll is essentially someone who sees and engages with people’s “lower” natures. Taking out the judgement of “higher” or “lower” - a troll engages people’s shadows. Much like a “Nigerian” 419 scammer is only able to scam people who have a shadow with money and want to get rich illegally or unethically, a troll does so more generally.

So people like 419 Scammers, Trump, and your basic internet troll are all doing “work” for people - just unconsciously. That’s why I’ve grown to appreciate Trump - not because he’s “good”, but because if I have one iota of emotion over what he says, that is work for me to look at.

It really isn’t for another person to find other people’s shadows - each person has to take personal responsibility for their own internal work and not abdicate their own internal sovereignty by expecting a program, another person or even God to do that work for them. Spirituality (waking up) is only one aspect of Integral. Growing up and Cleaning up are the other two. Spirituality is a solution, but is only 1/3 of an Integral solution.
If you are also interested assisting other people in learning to clean up with shadow work (understanding that it’s ultimately their responsibility), there are many groups that offer various modalities. One company has the trademark “Shadow Work” and are quite expensive, but also many other groups also have other modalities, including various “Men’s Groups” such as: For women other programs are also starting to develop.

Good job @raybennett !

To stop the political bickering that seems to get raised in every topic string, I suggest the spiritual solution is the willingness to embrace others who have opposing or different views from our own and to INTEGRATE their views and concerns into a holistic solution for everyone.

Is that even possible in our own hyper-partisan divides? Even here we all trigger the shadows in one-another? Certainly if we try and extend a solution to the world it has to be something acceptable to everyone.

Every person on this planet has a distinct set of opinions and sees life from a unique vantage point. There is a common saying, “The only thing in this world you can control or change is you.” What about the validity of our own point of view, can we change that? This is the call of the spiritual quest.

There are so many people in the world, all of whom have their own unique points of view. All these views will be entirely justifiable and believed as true and understandable to those who share them. There is nothing new to discover that is likely to meet your exact understanding or expectations, does that make them all invalid or tiresome to entertain?

Changes in our life and in our opinions are rungs on the spiritual ladder. The higher we climb on the spiritual ladder the more change we experience. The higher we climb the greater control we seem to gain in understanding our own life and our connection to the rest of the world, and this to me is what ultimately defines an integral life perspective.