Integral perspective of free will


#1

Hello beautiful people,

I have been searching for some integral perspectives of the free will debate. Does anyone know of any good articles, vids or links by either Ken Wilber or other integral thinkers on this topic?

Been searching without much luck…

Please let me know, I’d be grateful.

Kinga


#2

Hello beautiful person :smiley:

I’m mostly bumping this post since I haven’t researched into this topic or thought about it too much. Haven’t heard Ken say this, but someone told me their integral understanding as follows:

3rd person perspective=physical/causal determinism – no free will (Sam Harris brain states, genetics, right hand quadrants). From the outside looking in, free will doesn’t exist.
2nd person perspective=theological – no free will (all knowing God knows future preventing free will to alter it). Other forms could include cultural determinism (LL quadrants)
1st person perspective=free will exists, “Libertarian free will.” From our 1st person, subjective perspective, we can choose freely.

So like other philosophical questions, IT doesn’t give hard binary answers (which tend to exist at 1st tier stages) because it depends on which perspective one is coming from. Different perspectives=different answers to free will debate. From an Integral perspective, I think that saying free will absolutely does or doesn’t exist would be a form of quadrant absolutism, excluding other perspectives.

Hope that was helpful :wink:


#3

Aloha!

Thanks so much for that beautifully condensed summary. I have looked into determinism and libertarianism and did a lot of contemplation of my own but still feel like I need to explore further, not fully satisfied yet…

I need to really nut out the details if you know what I mean. Is this really my choice thought or am I driven to seek an answer :wink:

Hmmm…

Thanks for the 1/2/3rd person perspectives, I like that fresh framework of considering the question form.

Happy choosing (be it free or not)!

Kinga


#4

Hi Kinga, I just wanted to let you know that I will be discussing this exact topic with Ken during our show this coming Saturday. I’d be happy to send you my very long and drawn out question privately, if you like (I don’t want to publicly spoil the discussion too soon :wink: )

Anyway, just a heads up!


#5

Hello Corey-Devos,

Thanks so much for that, it sounds set to be a juicy topic to delve into and I would love to watch the discussion. Could you please tell me where to access the video? Sorry I am new to this website (beautifully put together by the way :wink: and so Idon’t know which show you mean. Is it ‘The Ken Show’? I am not a member, will there be another way to access the video?

Also I love to read (visual preferred) so I would very much welcome your “very long and drawn out question” on the topic of free will so please feel free to email/message me personally.

Thanks again and I look forward to fresh insight on this topic!

Kinga


#6

Hi Kinga,

Non-members can watch the live show on Saturday for free while we are actually broadcasting, which is at 3PM MT. Otherwise, the video will be published for Integral Life members over the next several weeks.

And yes, it is the Ken Show :slight_smile:

I will send you my written question in a private message in just a minute!


#7

Great, thanks a bunch!

Talk about efficient and prompt replies! You guys there at Integral are really on it hey? :wink:

Thank you, I’ll try to see what time that is in Barcelona and hopefully catch the show.

Much appreciated! :pray:t3:

Kinga