Integral thoughts on Taliban takeover of Afghanistan


#21

@FermentedAgave I unfortunately was unable to join, the session about Afghanistan.

The point that I was thinking about is why all of these tribes are at war, I can understand now more fully. I can sort of see that it is the more “systemic” move to add more troups to aid the downtrodden and give them a space to life. While all of these tribes fight out their war.

I’ve never read anything in specific about the islam. I know that in “polygamous socities and mostly stage purple tribes” that there are different ideas. About how polygamy itself is treated, because this is mostly for the offsprings, becoming warriors ?

I can see that this is not their living reality, and then that most likely the communication is broken between each tribal faction Sunni, Shia, Pashtuns.

I feel again the “west” and technocratic interests mostly is again issue with corruption. What are the interests for instance of russia to hire militia for some ressources ?

For instance in our “media view” which is quite critical in a sense, they show mostly what the individual has and how the use weapons as an individual. They never show the taliban as a group at least from what I saw, there is no east v.s west picture. At least not a real east v.s west picture. It’s more about technology and their intent.


#22

Is there a recording available of this session?


#23

Question for @corey-devos


#24

Ive got to say that its erie the Integral silence on what could be one of the largest humanitarian crises of the year that was absolutely preventable.


#25

What could you have done to prevent it?
I think you have just about as much control over global politics as anyone else who isn’t in the cabinet.


#26

Will introduced Metamodernism with it’s systematic levels - …, Primary, Concrete, Abstract, Formal, Systematic, Metasystematic, Paradigmatic stages.

Our roles are to select/elect leaders with the highest level of cognitive ability and moral foundation possible. It’s not inconceivable to have a bare minimum of healthy Systematic Stage (20%) mastery for all people in leadership positions. This is 1 of 5 so roughly 60M available choices in the US. And for our top most leaders - POTUS, SCOTUS, Cabinet, etc Metasystematic Stage should be more the rule than the exception. The selection pool is roughly 5M people to choose from in the US.

Unfortunately for the US and the world, every global leadership team knows now is the time to push forward their agendas for good or bad or really horrific.


#27

Hey there, no “eerie integral silence.” Did you know there was an Integral Justice Warriors’ podcast on Afghanistan this past Saturday? Due to some technical difficulties maybe with Zoom, it wasn’t able to complete, but watch this space for it in the future!


#28

I’m going to bring it back to YOU - what are you dong in your own community to make them aware that they need to elect these kinds of leaders?
I don’t accept that in a Democracy it’s anyone else’s responsibility to make the best choices available to them.
I don’t think up to the Integral Community to save or rescue the unwashed unthinking masses, nor to defend them from their own poor choices.
It’s up to @FermentedAgave and a hundred million other @FermentedAgave
's all across America and billions across the planet. Responsibility in a Democracy cannot be abdicated or is ceases to be a Democracy.
On the subject of Afghanistan - I’m especially curious regarding how you believe it was preventable? Or is this a Dunning-Kruger effect where the solution is most obvious to the least informed?
If nothing else, calling it the Worst Humanitarian Crisis of 2021 shows a lack of knowledge about many other ongoing humanitarian crises:


#29

@raybennett
To clarify, I should have phrased as ‘worst completely preventable humanitarian disaster of 2021 by the US administration.’

Preventable? Matter of tactics and conditions including staying in Afghanistan if condtions were not appropriate for a cut-n-run-in-dead-of-night surrender.

I didnt vote for nor donate to candidates that are clearly suffering, sadly, from dementia.

I’m hoping that the Taliban isnt the same unhealthy Red group that they have been in the past. And praying for all those left behind. :pray::pray:


#30

Investigative journalism from Vanity Fair!

“A year ago, we had built the same thing” required in Afghanistan, essentially. But the incoming Blinken team, he said, seemed like it “forgot” it had this capability in-house already and wanted to begin afresh: “It was like the U.S. government had never done this before.”


#31

#32

My concern on “eerie integral silence” still stands. Yes and I couldn’t attend the Zoom call. Also can’t find a single thread (other than this one) on a completely preventable existential crisis likely to have both near and long term “Developmental Level” influences globally.


#33

So your solution is a very vague " Matter of tactics and conditions".
In other words, you haven’t the foggiest idea how the problem could have been prevented, and no media that you are getting your talking points from has any idea, either.
You understand that describing a problem is not a solution?
Also, saying “we should have done something different” isn’t a solution?

Now, about staying in there - The Taliban already had a massive strategic advantage. The former administration’s scorched earth diplomatic strategy meant that staying in the country would have come with two costs:
1 - The US would have reneged on a deal entered into by the Trump Administration to leave the country
2 - The US would have had to re-invest massive troops into the country with a high probability of large battles with thousands of dead on both sides, including “collateral damage”.
I don’t see how random civilians being killed or maimed by US bombs as is common during military action is preferable to what is happening now. Then add onto that asking Military personnel to die or become permanently disabled for a people who have essentially made their choice against the US occupation.

In summary - the status quo / existing situation (staying there) wasn’t actually working that well and was destroyed by the prior president. Neither you nor any of the media you get your talking points from actually has any solution.


#34

@raybennett
Ah now I see whatt I was missing. The Biden administration is in fact doing an amazing job. Based on how Afgahnistan is playing out its clear he has been extremly inclusive of Omar and Talibs viewpoints. 46 just might be a top 30% Pres in the annuals of history.


#35

You’re completely blind to any reasonable middle ground point of view and you’re lost in your own unhealthy dogma.
Again, this has nothing to do with Integral - it’s all you and on you refusing to actually listen to people’s points of view and instead making up straw man after straw man after straw man that completely disregard what the other person is saying.
Good luck with your community, family and religion if this is how you guys interact with each other and with reality. It’s not going to end well.
Yes, yes … you’re going to say something about liberal wokism or turn the tables and be a victim … anything to avoid facing the fact that the actual problem is YOU, not anyone else and the solution to your self-created problems is in YOU, not in anyone else.


#36

@raybennett
I do agree with you that #46 is the most Woke Administration in US history. We do have some commin middle ground.


#37

Sec of State Rice on the 20th anniversary of al Queda attack on US.


#38

image


#39

#40

Biden, “Meta systemic but unforeseen consequences. My bad. Derp.”

Oops. Wrong “educational” video. NYT repirts 7 children, 3 adults, “most caring” Adminiatration. Hurray!