I have been listening to a lot of Lex Fridman podcasts recently - and he seems to me to approach life (and his long-form interviews) in an integral way. In his interviews, he gives everybody space and genuinely - it seems to me - tries to embrace all perspectives (and with love/empathy).
Do you think Lex is an integral thinker? Just curious what you think (if you have come across him).
Made me wonder about Sam Harris and even Joe Rogan.
I am a fan of Lex’s podcast. He is brilliant and very socially adapt at comfortably pulling information from people. I was a fan of Sam Harris’ as a fellow A-thiest I enjoyed his “spirituality without religion” but he’s fallen from his wisdom perch in my view.
I’ve enjoyed Lex Fridman’s podcasts for sure, and I recognize many of the same traits that you do. I think he is clearly a Teal thinker and interviewer, even if he doesn’t have the benefit of an Integral map to help make better sense of that territory. I am not sure how much of a developmental perspective he has, which is something that would presumably come online naturally at the Teal stage (or at least the capacity to hold stage theory), but I definitely get that overall integral impulse with him.
I don’t get that so much with Rogan, who I think is entertaining, but he resonates more with my own inner umber-orange stages, with maybe a sprinkling of green.
Of course, all this is kinda impossible to determine, and the most we can really say is, “when I look at these folks from the teal space in myself, I see, recognize, or resonate with something, or not.” So I can feel Teal resonance with Lex, in a way I cannot feel with Rogan. I always try to be cautious about color-coding human beings, because we are just more complex than that, and this approach keeps us a bit more clean, I think, since we are really making our own subject into object, rather than someone else’s.
The mention of Sam Harris and Joe Rogan reminds me that Integral Thinking and Integral behavior is not a permanent thing. Many people in their journey towards Integral go too far down rabbit holes and drink too much cool aide on their way there.
Beware hearing what a person says and believe that they are permanently henceforth and forevermore Integral.
The more fame they get, the more exponentially likely they are to veer off into a decidedly nonIntegral direction.
Regarding Lex Fridman, the interviewees listed on wikipedia mostly seem to be more crack pot right wing extremists
I think as people develop to higher levels they can have aspects of themselves that breakthrough into 2nd tier while the greater whole of their being remains anchored in 1st tier and I wouldn’t consider them an IT but evolving towards it. The question of whether Lex or anyone is an Integral thinker is best answered by looking at that person’s life in a larger context. What’s going on in their “We” realm and what kind of people do they socialize with? How do they view money and what do they do with it, etc?
Take Tony Robbins for instance. Many think he’s an Integral thinker yet the way he lives his life is basically Orange and not necessarily good. He’s stuck in the idea of “Getting Wealthy” and promotes the idea of getting rich by flipping houses. Turning the Housing market into a “Get rich scheme” is contributing to the problem of Affordable Housing for millions of Americans(I worked in affordable housing for years). He may have had 2nd Tier breakthroughs but at the end of the day he’s stuck at Orange. John Mackey co-founded the Conscious Capitalism Movement which could be a 2nd Tier breakthrough but at the end of the day he ran Whole Foods like a Dominator Hierarchy. I’ve known scores of people over the decades that worked in many of their locations from Upper Management to Produce and I’ve listened to their stories as well as observed in person many actions and policies that the company practices that are straight up Dominator Hierarchy style! Then John sells it to Jeff Besos and he has made it even worse.
Ray brings up a good point. Even if someone is moving into 2nd Tier and they become rich and famous and spend all their time in decadent luxury and become attached to all that fame they’re very likely to digress, develop a 1st tier pathology, and have the greater totality of their being remain anchored in 1st tier.
IMO, and Integral Thinker also has to be an Integral Feeler and Integral Intuitor. If you can’t extend empathy to all sentient beings without exceptions you’re not an IT. If you can’t Intuit the fact that we’re all interconnected with all of life and the Biosphere you’re not an IT. It’s common to have a breakthrough thought/idea arise that is Integral yet the rest of you be stuck at earlier levels. Maybe the question should be more fluid like “Is this person having Integral Ideas arise?” or “Are they moving towards 2nd Tier?”
Best,
Brian