Is The World Order About To Collapse?



A fresh perspective and analysis by geopolitical thought leader Peter Zeihan.

The world is changing faster than ever, and a lot of the countries, dynamics, peace treaties and structures we’re familiar with may be about to come to an end. Peter’s job consists of him analyzing data from geography, demographics, and global politics to understand economic trends and make predictions. And if his predictions are correct, the next 50 years are going to look incredibly different.

Expect to learn why China will lose half of it’s population by 2050, why globalization is coming to an end even though we’re more connected than ever, why population demographics are one of the most important factors in determining the future, whether automation will help or hinder us, whether food shortages are actually something to panic about and much more…


Wow I love this! :slight_smile: I am into spirituality and transformation … to me that includes transcend, descend or bend? I’d love your feedback on my ideas which are on my blog the spiritual quest linked on my profile. I actually shared this as a conversation starter and Your Response has me really excited about where we can take it.

I’m open to your constructive input on the politics of politics … but frankly would prefer something more engaging. A conversation around intimacy and how it’s missing in our dialog’s today? Agree, disagree, converse or ignore it, your choice?

Here’s a definition … Intimacy is when the boundary’s between self and others becomes blurry, the perfect place for intercourse.


This forum has been slowly dying in it’s own lack of progress. My interests are diverse and very much exploratory. I am really interested in the topic of spirituality, that’s what attracted me to Ken Wilber.

I do love these quotes! … Thank you for your time and kind comment. :slight_smile:


I think there might be an inevitable reason for this.
I think learning about the basics of integral theory is pretty easily accomplished. Then there is a fork in the road very early.

  • One fork in the road is integral practice and actually working to be integral in day to day activities. A discussion forum of this type isn’t very supportive of this. What would be needed is a kind of 12 step support group, where instead of alcohol or heroin or opiates, the “addiction” is to tier 1 thinking and behavior. But this forum as it is is nowhere near being close to that.
  • Another fork in the road that seems to be where this website excels at is more complex discussions about integral theory and analysis of how everyday world evens fits into the Integral models. It’s very descriptive and academic and apparently there is an endless degree to which these topics can be discussed. As the Website byline says “Making sense”.

Models don’t transcend - only people can. Ideas are just ideas. For example, anyone can understand the concepts of Buddhism - but understanding and discussing them will not bring anyone Nibbana. Or if we take Christianity - anyone can understand what it means to be “Christlike” - but so extremely few can actually manage it. Only daily practice for decades - or perhaps a single moment of clarity (grace) for the very few. I have never heard any enlightened being every tell their enlightenment story and heard it was from endlessly discussing models about enlightenment that did it.

What I have learned about facilitating such groups is that it’s first necessary to establish a “container” that supports such a dialogue. Intimacy can be seen as risky in a “wild west, anything goes” discussion where any random participant worldwide may have an agenda against other participants. Even if one participant holds back the entire container suffers.


I read Zeihan’s book a couple of weeks ago and have been looking at his videos and others who might have related or counter information. The demographics are pretty irrefutable. I keep wondering if we are really de-globalizing as it’s so hard to untangle these interdependencies, and while the US certainly changed its direction militarily, we sent more and more work overseas until Covid pointed out the flaws in Just-in-time manufacturing. We seem to have built a lot of the future on trust that everyone is transactional. I wonder what an integral globalized world looks like. How do we really see and accommodate other societies, companies, even key individuals by their levels, streams, etc? And will this transition usher in an integral social level of significance, or drive us back a level or two, or do we have to go backward to go forward? Is there more trust had higher levels?


I think it will necessarily have to transcend and include the current model and also previous economic models.
Both the Global Supply chain and also Neighborhood local stores and farms need to be included, and there is a role for national economies and borders, but we can’t go all-out protectionaist either.

For the past 50 years the world has been all-out 100% large corporation oriented and now people are just starting to see that isn’t the best way - but also going back to the Nation State economy 100% isn’t the answer, either. A new solution has to be formed that includes the previous models but also is not only just any one of them.


One of the most interesting things Zeihan said in this talk was that the US had so many advantages it could afford some rather significant mistakes. Allowing the Powell doctrine to be enacted to empower corporations to this unbalanced state is one of the biggest in my mind, and created the inequity that fuels the divisiveness we see in our politics and society. I get why people are so angry, but flouting our democratic principles isn’t going to get anyone what they want - not the rich, not the poor, not the middle class, certainly not the corporations or Wall Street, not even the politicians. And if you believe Zeihan, not the Chinese or Russians, either.
That slip room was very obvious after WWII when corporations ignored the quality movement, and that came back to haunt them.

As Warren Buffett says, “when the tide goes out, you see who’s swimming naked.” The question is, when the real eye-opening, undeniable thing happens, will we be called to our higher selves, as the whole world was for a short time after 9/11, or will we panic and revert to our baser instincts to survive? The recession didn’t do it. Electing unqualified people who hat our system of government didn’t do it. A pandemic, even with a bear market didn’t do it. A shooting war in Europe? Not yet. I shudder to think what it will be.

Gurdjieff speaks of shock points, and wake-up calls are those. There are only so many times we can hit snooze. But I’ve always expected the transition to integral, a whole new level, would require a shock point we’ve not seen in our lifetimes.


I wrote a whole book on this very topic hoping to move the open-minded to embrace changing themselves.


Are you familiar with the Strauss-Howe Generational theory and their concept of the 4th Turning? I’ve been using it to ponder upon how the past Crisis period climaxes (i.e. American Revolution, Civil War, World War 2) would inform our current Crisis period climax. Perhaps a totally different kind of conflict will emerge now that the Internet is at play but I don’t know what other kind there is other than total revolution, internal civil war or multipolar world war. Maybe it will be all 3???


Technology has enabled us to start new companies, new communities, and new currencies. Can it be used to start new cities, or even new technological countries?

Some would argue Facebook, Google, Amazon, Twitter, etc. are precursors to such a new future.
Balaji Srinivasan served as CTO of Coinbase and General Partner at Andreessen Horowitz. He is an angel investor, tech founder, philosopher, and author of The Network State … how to start new countries beyond physical geographies.

This is a long and substantive interview I found fascinating.


Anthony Robbins does a nice summary on how 4th turning will effect people differently. A great interview!


I’m still only on Hour 2 of this episode :o In the meantime, are you familiar with Adam Curtis? I found his documentaries to be fascinating but I don’t know anyone who has watched them, much less been able to offer any analysis.

For a single film:

For his latest series:


Hi @MattMazz In watching these I sense these are historical interpretations which can be written to support any ideology … which is always a limited view. I don’t see anything forecasted or even a bullet pointed list of idea objectives regarding any integral thought ideas. What’s you take away on these documentaries?


The only hypothesis I’ve come away with is that “Revolutions” don’t usually achieve their desired goal and if anything just usher in a new but similar cycle. Necessary perhaps but uncontrollable and counterintuitive. Had you seen them before?


Revolutions are like a rash or blister showing an underlying root cause. Outcomes from revolutions reveal themselves years later.

The shifts in American society bring changes that reveal themselves decades later. Usually out of the foresight of those wrapped up in a day-to-day battle on the ground. Fighting for or against the revolutionary rebels from the Boston Tea Party, the Abolitionists, to the New Deal, Star Wars, Occupy BLM and MAGA movements. The history told by the victors usually never reflects the true reality on the ground at the time.

Getting multiple stories from multiple view points always tells a more rounded story. Sadly most people only tell and believe their own stories and fight those battles throughout their lives, often missing the beauty and brilliance of the human civilizations and cultures that thrive all across the world.


But also remember that for every actual revolution, there may have been 100 would-be revolutions that never got off the ground.

Honestly I don’t see the vanguard of the current wannabe revolution as having anywhere near the “right stuff”. Armchair quarterbacks, keyboard warriors and hypersensitive man babies will not make any revolution of substance. “Peak Neckbeard” was 2016.
I’ve been saying since 2012 that the worst thing that could happen to conservatives would be if they actually got the power to implement what they think they want - to be in power and control all 3 branches of the federal government.
But a revolution requires leadership - not following in the front, which is what populism is. The mob is fickle and won’t sustain itself over the long term. Only a leader can turn the mob into something that will withstand hardship to achieve long term goals. Instead of leading, by and large conservatives have allowed themselves to be led by the mob - and now find themselves leaderless when the mob starts to lose interest and moves on to the next grievance movement.
The world order will not collapse because of revolution - it will collapse because there will be no revolution


I would lead if necessary. What should I do?


@MattMazz … Lead what? Lead who? Lead when? There’s a massive need for genuine leadership. Why lead?


I listened to all 7 hours of the Lex Friedman podcast episode. It was interesting, Balaji was a little grating at times. The 4th Turning Tony Robbins interview was great! I keep coming back to Generation Theory and the 4th Turning every so often because I do believe it will help guide me through this Crisis Climax where I anticipate playing a leadership role. The last How To video was helpful. I’m getting closer to establishing what I want to lead (508c1a Nonprofit Christian - Integral -Church) for whoever wants to hear the Unitive Message and eventually participate in Art/Music Therapy, Community Projects, and Holistic Classes.

Why? To do what ought to be done but wouldn’t have been done unless I did it, I thought to be my duty. —Robert Morrison


I’d love to learn more about your ideas @MattMazz. My personal history and mission with the spiritual quest is to listen to people who live and experience life in our current world dynamics. ~ Peace