All perspectives are accepted, yours included. I’m not sure what mainstream is, but I think yours reflects the argument that the victim is always right and is not more integral than mine. When David wins over Goliath, you will root for poor Goliath. I believe that I see the situation from both perspectives as much as I can. In a nutshell, the essence of the conflict is both Jews and Arabs claim the same land. They have two options: Compromise and create a political solution where everybody can live in peace and dignity, or continue fighting and inflicting misery on each other. Unfortunately, the latter option prevails. There has been misery on both sides, but it’s amazing how many international organizations fail to recognize terrorism against Israel (bombs in busses, movie theatres, and more all these years at some points called Intifada) and always point to Israel when it defends itself. Antisemitism is alive and well. I am sure you didn’t read about Hamas sending rockets all the time or just low-tech balloons and drones that ignited the crops on the Israeli side, just on the damage to Gaza when Israel targeted the sources of the attack. The media and UN institutions were constantly pro-Arab. Think oil.
Hamas attacks from dense populations, and there is no way to destroy the source of the attack without hurting civilians. The difference is the intent. Israel wanted peace, not killing Arabs. I say wanted because sadly, whenever a moderate Israeli government attempted a peace agreement, the Palestinians torpedoed it. Ask Clinton. Which led to the rise of the Right and the ultra-religious, culminating in the terrible current government most Israelis are against.
Finally, the blaming game has never solved any problems. The question is how to negotiate peace and ensure that the negotiators will not be killed by their own people like Sadat and Rabin. Arafat didn’t want to join them. See more notes below.
On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 01:43:28 AM CDT, Charles Marxer via Integral Life Community firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
All perspectives are welcome. Yours is the mainstream view of Hamas, unfortunately one-sided. Labeling them as only a terrorist organization is spitting distance from de-humanizing them altogether (“human animals”), not ok from any moral or integral point of view. Some facts to note:
**Human animals is your term not mine. I have never used it, and never will.
Hamas is not just a terrorist organization, it is in fact the duly elected government of Gaza,
So was Hitler
never recognized by Israel or the United States.
Hamas did not recognize Israel and declared its goal to destroy it.
They governed with a tough hand, but under them the Gazans managed about as well as they could have under the Israeli occupation.
** Not really. Hamas has been the elected government of Gaza since 2005 after Israel disengagement. They didn’t govern under occupation. Had Hamas recognized Israel then instead of initiating acts of terror, we wouldn’t been where we are today. The entire world, including Israelis would have helped Gaza This was a missed opportunity** Unfortunately, currently the status quo is supported by both extremists in Hamas and in Israel fanatic. Both want it all and want to stay in power.
**If you knew more about Islam treatment of the infidel, you would understand why Israelis are in survival mode. The Arabs can lose many buttles. For Israel, one loss is another holocaust.
Hamas has indeed practiced terrorism against Israel, serious war crimes. Israel has inflicted far worse [state] terrorism on Gaza and the West Bank since 1948 to the present. Click here for a summary of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity
Check your facts. Between 1948 and 1967 (The 6 Days War), Gaza was under Egypt’s control, and the West Bank was under Jordan. They could create a Palestinian state. Why didn’t they? Instead, they kept the refugee camps. So much so that after 1967, Jordan was happy to get rid of them. How about war crimes of Palestinians against Israel?
For your information, the name Palestine or Palaestina was coined by the Romans after the Philistines (then extinct but had lived roughly where the current Gaza strip is) after conquering Judea in the first century CE. The name stayed, although for Jews, it has always been the land of Israel. I was born in Haifa in 1942, and on my birth certificate, the Nationality was Jewish; Arabs were Arabs–not Palestinians. They started to call themselves Palestinians in the 1960’s. Also about a third of the Jordanian population is Palestinian as well, including the king’s wife is. In 1948 it made more sense to annex the West Bank to Jordan and Gaza strip to Egypt. But they were kept in refugee camps and
people who live in refugee camps are understandably angry. Instead of inciting hate against Israel, it would have been better to help them restart a new life. More about it later.
1947-48 Israel perpetrated the first Nakba on the Palestinians, driving more than 700,00 of them out of their homeland. Israel has been living on stolen land ever since.
**Israel perpetrated? Right from Arab propaganda. In 1947 the UN decided about a partition of mandatory Palestine between Jews and Arabs based on population concentration of both nations. The jews accepted it but the surrounding Arab state started a war against Israel and lost.
I understand the Arab point of view more than you give me credit for. Nakba in Arabic means disaster. The disaster for them was the foundation of the the state of Israel–not the refugees.
In 1947-48 many jews who lived in Jerusalem, Hebron, and other places were evacuated from places that ended up being in Jordan. They lost all as well. They were called evacuees not refugees. The state helped them resettle. About 900,000 Jews escaped or immigrated to Israel from Moslem countries after 1948 including my late husband who was born in Baghdad. They lived in terrible conditions not unlike the Arab refugees. Nobody called them refugees either. It took time, but the state helped them resettle. Why couldn’t Arab state do the same? Because they didn’t want to.
Israel has now stated its intention to commit a second Nakba: destroy Hamas, which cannot be done without killing untold thousands of Palestinian civilians or driving them out of the territory altogether. Then, say the Israelis, we will wash our hands of Gaza.I leave to your imagination what that might mean.
**I live it to your imagination what will happen to Israeli if it does not. I wonder if you will show pictures of the destruction of Israel. Why not use your Integral imagination to find a better solution, such as international force ruling Gaza, rather than blame Israel? Easier said than done, of course.
Hamas’s 1988 charter states that Israel should not exist, but that doesn’t mean negotiation with them is impossible. (Vladmir Putin thinks Ukraine should not exist, but NATO negotiates with him.) In fact, in 2017, a new charter was issued by Hamas leader Khaled Mashal which accepted for the first time the idea of a Palestinian state within the borders that existed before 1967. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter)
You say Hamas has used aid money to buy weapons? True, but obviously not all the money, because Gazans have been able to survive (barely) all these years, which requires money for food, shelter, clothing, education, hospitals, medicines, etc…
They would have lived much better If Hamas had used the money to build the economy and promote the welfare of the population. Israel was no risk for Gazans. It was the other way around
Israel has the right to defend itself; so do the Palestinians, although you won’t hear that mentioned by any US administration or in the mainstream media.
Finally, after living for decades in “the world’s largest open-air prison,” did you expect the Palestinians to do nothing? To endure the daily privations and humiliation forever? Remember when the American colonies were occupied by the British military and had to endure many indignities (although nothing like the Palestinians have had to endure)? I don’t know of any American history books that describe the revolutionaries as terrorists. Double standards abound in the current situation, along with massive confirmation bias.
Weren’t the revolutionaries terrorists? Ask the American Indians. You have no problem living on a land that belonged to them, but you have a problem with Jews who have always lived in the land of Israel, although as a minority, who returned to their homeland. Check your unconscious antisemitism. Where is the double standard? By the way, Israeli Arabs, about 20% of Israel’s population, despite a lot of problems, live much better than American Indians and Arabs in many Islamic countries. I wish the attempted peace agreement didn’t fail. Now, it’s more difficult to reach agreements on both sides.
I encourage you investigate seriously the Palestine point of view, not just on what is happening now, but in the context of the last 75 years of conflict between the two peoples.
And I suggest that you investigate seriously the Israeli point of view. I’ve been following the conflict all my life.