Relating to higher levels of experience

I am unsure how to type all of this coherently without support and going through my life currently is rough because there are a lot of personal issues that I’ve built up thanks to my upbringing etc. Also, thanks to the glee of other people and non-acceptance of their differences.

Again I currently feel very weird and studying integral theorie is quite dense. I feel that a lot of pain and that this antagonism against black people especially is coming back and that I am contribuiting to it.

I often hear voices and I talked to Shinzen Young in a life practice programm so, incase anyone is interested they can find the talk and join the programm. The point is that I am currently going through a lot and I want to ask for help.

I did a meditation retreat this weekend via zoom and there was a person who was disabled. I was put into the room and we guided each other and created a save place for each other. Which is fine I noticed that the disabled person had done a lot of practice and through facilitating him we all could see that brining equanimity and acceptance to each other further facilitates working through painful experiences. Shinzen for e.g talks about how resistance and pain is multiplied by no having enough equanmity. Now I had a decent amount of judgement when I saw the disabled person, because of my culture and there love towards glee. Which is utterly disgusting in a sense.

The disabled person was a better and more experienced meditator then me and allowed me even to dive deeper into my meditation which was weird. Because I legit feel hex-coded.

This is what I mean as an Enneagram Type 4 my experience is so deep I find it difficult to relate to other and sharing and resolving these issues makes it difficult to see. It’s depth.

Now again I am going through a lot the retreat helped me and I was able to release a lot of antagonism and rigidity. I feel that a 4th turning of buddihsm what ever that shall be for now is needed.

Again going through live in hyper-speeds might be good for progress, and this is the way to go. Processing past hurts / heart ache / trauma etc. Is important. NOW the big thing for me is that I am being diagnosed as gifted via a partner that I found that work with me sort of this underachiever syndrom. That is present all over my Gen Y generation and the extrem amount of complacency. Which was highly projected upon me for e.g based on my boomer parents.

This is extremly weird for me because the topics that I am interested in are highly scientific and social as well as politically interrealted. I also notice a lot more correlations based on the enneagram and music and frequencies, yet I am unsure if I am deluding myself or if it works. Binaural beats have an extremely strong effect on me personally.

How I am starting again to hear voices and dive deeper and shinzen even said to me breaking golden chains. I don’t know if he makes a joke out of me because he cares or if this is legit based on what I’ve “read” about nelson mandela and martin luther king. To even have a conversation about ancient history /black history/ as well as american history. Is very difficult for Germans because of their past history. Yet, this place sort of combines everthing.

My heart went wide open during this micro weekend retreat and and I poured my heart out and aplogized to people that I’ve wronged and talked about issues that bothered me.

The point is the facilitator gave me the advice to do one thing at a time. Now I am a very vata like / type person. I notice doing one thing at a time is great advice and I follow it with multiple blocks of activities for instance 2h X, 3h Y and record all of my planning and planning process.

Now again I feel very close to tears and all of this pain and heartache that resides in my is churning and being released through crying. I feel like meditating all day and reching a deeper place. I certainly need a competent coach for mindfulness and to give and get support. Yet, I am unsure what to do with this voices experience.

I keep hearing the voice of a person I once loved and longed for and I’ve certainly wronged in a way that is not very harmful. Yet, again I feel love and I had an extremly weird visual phenomenon. Where I noticed that I experienced past lifes in a sense of people who died in my life and I looked for recordings of them. I’ve finished reading ROT and I saw how this is more above a green view and shinzen contextually imo said it’s a makiyo experience and that his is an golden opporunity.

I talked into a camera and into a microphone and started to notice that I heared a completely different experience. Now again can anyone relate to this ? Did anyone here experience something similar with a person who passed away and or was gone out of ones life ?

Your consciousness flow of typing words here exposes a data-dump of experiences that are certainly shared by everyone. To build a sharp concise picture out of the ever flowing input requires a strong effort on your part to compartmentalize this information into smaller boxes of study.

The information you have access to here is overwhelming. It’s like just flying over a city and trying to remember what you see. If you take the time to walk the streets and experience the details from on the ground first then the flyover makes a lot of sense.

Before you can integrate multiple disciplines you need to secure a complete understanding of one. Being young it’s best to choose what makes you feel good and become a master of that one thing. From that mastery you can measure everything else in relationship to what you already know for sure.

All the best to you! ~ Peace :slight_smile:


Thank you for encouraging me and sharing the connection. Mastery and going towards mastery is something that I am currently doing. Thanks for sharing and being encouraging !

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There is some pretty basic psychological effects of audio. EDM/Trance (happy/euphoric), classical (calming), jazz (?),… get out those headphones and enjoy!!

I personally found EMDR/binaural extremely helpful when going through a particularly nasty divorce. I still use today when I find myself ruminating on past hurts - soundtracks are on the phone and the noise cancelling headsets are charged up.

One comment (cross over from your other note) is that it’s very rare to hear about predatory/abusive women in relationships. Narrative is fairly well set that “it’s probably the mans fault somehow”. :slight_smile:

I have found that committing for a lengthy period to a spiritual practice is key to getting the benefits. To put a little bend in @excecutive description, to me we don’t even need to understand - just do the work. For me, when we are evaluating and judging whatever practice you have chosen, we are withholding ourselves at a “safe” distance by focusing on “knowing about”, rather than “experience of”.

Try to have some fun with your journey along the way. The Curse of the Gifted can often show up as being way too serious. LOL

I’m really in agreement with Shinzen Young in that developing equanimity is so helpful, especially for enneagram type 4s. I’d say this is also true when experiencing hearing voices - holding everything lightly, and not being too certain about what they mean. I think it’s really important to be open to all the possibilities - if looking at it from a scientific perspective there’s so much science doesn’t know yet, and maybe there’s something magical or psychic going on. There’s also been a lot of scientific research into psychic phenomena though. I really like Dean Radin’s book ‘Real Magic’, which brings a lot of the research together, along with work he’s done. But then also perhaps they come from the unconscious. It will be different for everybody. And there are many possibilities of what could be happening. I can see how it could become scary if looked at too deeply or analysed. I feel like holding everything lightly is the key to ‘sanity’… but then I think there are different ways to do that - I’d say equanimity is different to being detached.

@FermentedAgave Yeah, doing to work and showing up is great. I definitely feel that when diving in and out of different communities.

It is weird for me to go through all of this and wanted to write a post where I can receive some support. Shinzen said to me as far as I can recall that all of it is fine and that working with a coach would be the best support that I could receive currently.


Yes, certainly I notice the same I the hearing voices phenomena is weird I feel that there is a constant reflection of whatever I experience. A lot of synchonistic events that are unusual. This is a bit more then only confirmation bias.

In ROT Ken describes ultraviolett as a stage and I felt I had an experience there consuming information 100x faster and having a lot of internal visions.

Equanmity and detachment are two different themes. Inside the UM System using rest and focusing on rest produces equanimity as well as zooming out produces a lot of detachment. Zooming further out and out from a given experiences definitely helps with detaching from it.

I have a similar view that holding something lightly is part of acceptance and taking that doing that constantly is the key to becoming more acceptance of others also in relationships.

I finished reading “The Success Principles” from Jack Canfield there was an diagramm of how a hearbeat monitor looks based on frustration and based on acceptance. It was fascinating to see how spiky the graph of the hearbeat monitor looked, as well as how loosely the graph of the other hearbeat looked which displayed the acceptance graph.

In the end it’s a feeling and that tuning into ones heart and radiating acceptance is a key principle for attaining success. I definitely learned that out of this book and use it now more often.

A lot of 432 music is love/heart centered and I noticed that this is the entire heart triade of the enneagram. Which is definitely a cool coincidence.

Interesting. Have you heard of polyvagal theory? Based on heart rate variability. The more variable your heart rate, the better your mental health and the more you’re in social/play/creative mode rather than in fight/flight freeze. It’s interesting that in anxiety/trauma (I see these as very similar as anxiety is also based on associative learning) people switch between having a very low heart rate (to conserve energy/hide and associated with freeze mode) to having a very rapid heart rate when going into fight/flight. And you can gradually change this so you more often have that smooth heart rate with high variability. One thing I know research has shown works with this is metta meditation. But with people who’ve experienced a lot of trauma it was found to be better to do mindfulness training first. I’ve been meaning to read some Jack Kornfield - I know he has ‘The path with heart’. I expect self-compassion would also have this effect. I’m a fan of Kristen Neff and Paul Gilbert. I actually did a self-compassion therapy course based on Paul Gilbert’s work and this had such a big effect on me. I still have a super spiky heart rate though- it jumps up as soon as anyone talks me to me. I’ve been listening to some podcasts on somatic experience therapy as well and have been meaning to read Peter Levine - it’s all about energy being trapped in your body and being able to release it - like animals shake themselves after theyve experienced something scary, whereas it’s not usually appropriate for us to do that and so it gets trapped, and I think this trapped energy is subtle energy.

It’s possible. I know Ken Wilber also mentions that you can experience this with a state experience of the causal. Violet is associated with the subtle state and Ultraviolet with the causal, but you can experience state phenomonen separately and at any stage. I think also a lot of the shadows you could exoerience at third tier you could also experience if you were stuck at different states.

Yes, it would be a peak experience in a sense that is possible at every stage, yet has not fully translated into a structure-stage. I am unsure if it is ultraviolett ROT had a lot of dysfunctions and I am doing so much stuff currently I did not get to the notes in the back where some of this stuff is explained excellently.

I never heard of polyvagal theory is it because of the vagus nerve and or nervous system ? I looked at google images. I’ve read in the book the body keeps the score the reactions that occure when an accident happens that seem similar to polyvagal theory. Stopping and freezing as well as driving over the person etc. In the book itself there are images showing how in an accident the brain for instance goes into depersonalization mode and you can clearly see that there is no activity or extremely less activity in the brain.

Polyvagal theory in association with the heart rate sounds very cool, I never heard of it. I saw in the book success principles how an acceptant heart rate looks and that tuning into ones heart and creating positive feelings IIRC this is paraphrased helps with releasing trapped emotions.

I mostly try to use exercise and or shadow work and or a forgivness practice at best all three. Yet, currently I am alternating there are so many practices. I find that a simple gratitude journal and a success journal works best for me now.

That is interesting that the trapped energy is suble energy, I did not fully get into kriya yoga where they describe the “bliss body” ananamayakosha etc. As sort of this onion model of bodies that exist on the spiritual path. Subtle phenomenon in integral theory is definitely also the dream releam as far as I can recall. Casual is the archetypal releam. Although there are distinctions.

Working with shadows for me exercise seems to be working the best. It’s also a practice recommended, a friend also told me that yoga can help with trauma and especially sexual trauma.

I will definitely keep in mind that having a smooth heart rate and fascilitating social/creative play enhances me.

Yes it’s to do with the ventral vagal being associated with safety and the dorsal vagal with danger. It’s very complicated and something I’ve been wanting to look over again. But also completely seperate from that there’ve been a lot of studies on heart rate variability alone which show the changes on heart rate variability.

This is my theory. I haven’t heard it anywhere. Though emotions are thought of as part of the subtle body. I think this is something physical which can’t yet be measured scientifically but I expect in the future it will be possible.

Thanks for letting me know. I’ll keep this in mind. I do not take anything that is written verbatim.