Sitting in the Mystery: Aliens, Artists, and the Experiencer Group

Originally published at:

Belief in UFOs and alien contact continues to find more and more legitimacy. In this fun and fascinating discussion, Stuart and Corey take a deep dive into these cosmic mysteries, exploring the many ways the Integral framework helps us illuminate and interpret the full enchilada of human (and non-human) experience, from the ordinary to the extraordinary to the extra-extraordinary.

I love seeing all my favourite integral people talking about UFO these past years (thanks to Sean Esjborn to come out first) because I have always been fascinated by the subject. Now I have a legit context to put this phenomenon in.
I have to ask: For those of you who have been fans of this kind of ‘out there’ material, then you must know about the incredible ancient technology that is found all throughout South America and Egypt… this creates a bit of a brain knot in regards to the theory of evolution of consciousness that parallel humanity’s technological advances.
Anyone here has given this matter some thoughts?

The term UFO by self description is that which cannot be identified. There are things about the world that we cannot understand and science cannot explain and people experience things that science cannot understand.

The trend I see in the 21st century for the UFO topic and many others seems to be: As rational and pluralistic explanations are found lacking, people return back to the mythic. The phrase “believer in this type of phenomena” was used in the OP. To me belief seems close to faith and mythic. Sometimes embracing the mythic is a rejection of rational, but not always.

I myself use mythic systems of belief - bits of Pagan, Hindu and even New Age mythology in my practice to fill in cognitive gaps where the rational cannot explain things. But I think it’s important to recognize when we move out of “something happened we can’t explain” to “Something happened that science cannot explain, therefore my alternative story must be true, even though it is even less rational than the scientific explanation.” Aka, the “therefore aliens” meme popularized by the History channel’s Ancient Aliens series. In my own though process I instead choose “Something happens that I cannot explain rationally, so I choose a mythic model that I understand is equally incapable of rationally explaining the experience, and many other mythic models are equally viable so long as they do not claim to be rational.”

Lack of an explanation by science does not lend more legitimacy to mythic explanations based on faith. In my lifetime I have never encountered any explanation of UFO’s that made sense. The science does not make sense and neither does the mythology. Neither is becoming more or less legitimate due to the other. The FO’s remain U- unidentified.

Humans like to take the unknown and create a mythology around it. In the UFO sphere the mythologies that I know and have checked out can be easily debunked because they usually describe technology and ideologies that are specific to a period of Human history and human development. For example, more recent cultures and individuals that might be in the green spectrum tend to experience UFO experiences in that paradigm, while 30 years earlier it was more common for people to believe stories behind UFO sightings as more orange. This is very similar to the psychedelic community, where entities encountered during a trip are more benevolent or more malignant or more natural or more technological, but depends mostly on the doser’s psychological state influenced by set and setting.

Wow…my heart pulsates with resonance listening to Stuart and Corey. My whole life has been waiting for these conversations and stories to show up as my own life, beginning in early childhood, experienced so many phenomena of subtle like experiences from a near death to the many out of body experiences and on going electrical like pulsating charges up my spine. When I was quite small sitting in the backseat of our car my Mom backed into an electrical pole and for some reason I was purged with electrical like shocks through my body. Perhaps all this lead to my unusual experiences…a mystery…yet this mystery opened me to these more subtle experiences to change the trajectory of my life into my movement into higher levels, states and what today is constant downloads of information that has transmitted into my mystic poetry and writings. For so long my life lived in two different realties until impossible anymore after my last powerful out of body experience. Corey and Stewart your conversation gave me such excitement and does Sean’s work and experiences. Yes would love to join any conversations to go deeper. My dear friends We are in early beginnings of what is upon us as we get through so much of this chaos moving through now. My Big Love to all, MaryLinda

While I’ve never had a direct experience with UFO’s or Aliens I began telling a story at 8 years of age to friends that “I was friends with the UFO’s.” I had a short wave radio and would tell them that the sounds they were hearing(the radio waves between frequencies coming through the components) was the UFO’s hovering above us. I think that was a myth I created to make me feel a degree of power over the others. By my 20’s I was convinced that humans were an evolutionary experiment by Aliens and would joke that I was part of the 5th wave of “Extraterrestrial intervention.”

Today, I feel that it wouldn’t be possible that humans are the only advanced species in the universe and it makes sense that extraterrestrials, aliens, ufo’s, etc, exist. I still joke with people about being part extraterrestrial but I have yet to have a conscious experience of them. I think I would be disappointed if I were to somehow find out that humans were the most advanced species in this great universe. I can only hope that I discovery more answers before this bodily journey is over.

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Have anyone read patrick harpur? He have a book on soul and another one in philosophers. Is not talking about ufo’s. Is talking about other realities. subtle realities.

Well, if I recall correctly, years ago, Ken Wilber thought of abductions from UFO’s as pure narcissism.
I suspect he might feel the same on UFO’s. It’s fun to speculate, to get some kind of thrill just talking about UFO’s. As for myself, what little interest I had in it I lost it a long time ago. There is just too much speculation too much talk ABOUT UFO’s and no solid evidence. I’m reminded of a recent Raw Story article on Marco Rubio’s comments about mysterious flying objects, I said the following on the comment section

Rubio is either stupid or he doesn’t know- I’d say it’s both. If indeed there are flying objects in US airspace, they are most likely state of the art secret aircrafts that the US military is designing and testing. The only way to test them is to fly them hence risk exposure. To say or even speculate that they are UFO’s is a distraction, a way to confuse and dupe us into thinking there is something malevolent going on with the deep state.
If there is a conspiracy, it’s Rubio playing dumb to keep the American people dumb and stupid. This also keeps UFO conspiracy theorists and reporters as useful idiots by keeping them in their conspiracy bubble and therefore prevents them from poking around military bases or investigating further to see what’s really going on. In fact, the government covertly and intentionally gives out secret documents about UFO’s to conspiracists. The documents are meant to look legit, but they are fake to keep conspiracists -or anyone else- distracted and in their own delusion. Countless documentaries are made on UFO’s based on drama, hyperbole, and fake documents- never on facts. But the military and entertainment industry is just fine with that.

Those in power need stupid people and the way to do it is to make stuff up with narratives that distracts them and undermines their capacity to think for themselves.

I was engrossed in this conversation, found it stimulating, informative, and witty! And kudos to CdV for production/graphics/editing that substituted for Stuart’s video presence–I didn’t miss his face at all, no offense to Stuart :sunglasses:.

I think of those of us who have had atypical or anomalous experiences, whether ufology-related and/or otherwise, as “dawn-greeters,” people who have awakened either consciously or by accident or illness from the gross-physical dream enough to be open to whatever else the universe wants to show us. If we can handle the transrational and transpersonal views with courage and strength and live with uncertainty, and keep on and keep loving–that is, not totally “crap out” so to speak–more and more will be shown. I think we’re the armchair amateur “scientists” and pioneers of an extraordinary change that is bound to occur in terms of how we view ourselves and other lifeforms and our capacities, death and “afterlife,” this planet, and other reaches of the universe–each in our own small way, but collectively influential, no matter how long it takes. (All this assuming of course, humanity does survive its current crises.)

While trite, I often revert to the analogy of a flat earth; even after discovery of its roundness, it took centuries for the world as a whole to “buy in.”

I look forward to the conversation with Ken about some of this, including Integral’s “predictive power” in realms trans-planetcentric.

I’m curious specifically which group of people you are proposing as equivalent to flat earthers in your analogy?
Are you equating people who do not believe in human contact with alien beings with flat earthers?
Also, who are Dawn Greeters? I know many people who have awakened but do not recognize Alien contact as a thing, so I’m inferring that Dawn Greeters are a specific group of awakened people who do believe we have been contacted by Aliens?

Hi Ray, thanks for your questions. Let me see if I can adequately answer them, starting with an admission that I should probably retire my trite analogy about a flat earth as it can be confused with the actual “Flat-earther” groups who still believe the earth is flat and that promotion of the idea (fact) that the earth is round is a conspiracy by certain corporations, governments, space exploration organizations.

No, I am not “equating people who do not believe in human contact with alien beings with flat earthers.” What I was intending to say is that it sometimes takes a long time for the majority of people to adapt to and accept new human awareness or knowledge–whatever that new knowledge might be. But let me back up…

I would emphasize, as I stated in my post, that I was speaking not strictly about ufology/aliens, but about “atypical or anomalous experiences” in general. As mentioned in the webcast and in other of the ufology podcasts with/by integralists that I’ve listened to, this anomalous experience includes, in addition to the ufo-related phenomena, things like near-death experiences, out-of-body experiences, precognitive dreams, psychic and subtle communication/interactions, etc. I was referring to the whole of atypical experiences,

Dawn-greeters is my own term, used loosely to refer to the millions of people who have had NDEs, or OOBs, or precognitive dreams, or psychic and subtle or causal experiences, even non-dual realizations (and yes, my term refers also to those people who have had some kind of encounter with craft or beings that seem–and may or may not be-- off-planet or in other dimensions of reality) that the world has yet to accept as legitimate or “real” or worthy of full and thorough and on-going investigation. I include myself in this group of people, and while I highly respect rationality and science, neither rationality nor science is “my god.” I don’t automatically “bow down” before science, particularly given its domain of investigation is largely in the exterior world, with little attention to human interiors, and given also, it fails to take seriously as a field of legitimate investigation those things that are, well, anomalous, atypical, outside of the usual. And it does of course make many mistakes.

Of course there is the pre-rationality of the mythic, but there is also transrationality, and I am using that term to refer to “beyond the rational stage.” The intuitive prowess of the green stage might be one easy example. There are many people and not just indigenous people but Westerners too practicing shamanic techniques, for instance. I sometimes refer to that as transrational shamanism or transrational magic (shamanism having emerged during the magic stage). These are rational people, some holding esteemed jobs and positions in the world, who can use elements originating in the magic and mythic and rational stages towards good ends.

And yes, of course there are “people who have spiritually awakened who do not recognize alien contact as a thing.” My term “dawn-greeters” refers to people who have experienced something atypical, as I said above. “Belief” is not the emphasis here. People who disbelieve in, say, out-of-body experiences base that disbelief on…what? The fact they themselves have not had that particular experience? The fact that science has not yet validated it? The fact that most people don’t believe it? For people who have had it, while they may not fully understand it and have to “live with uncertainty” as I said in my post, it is an experience for them, not a belief.

I hope this clears up some of the questions you had about my comments; shoot me some more if not :slightly_smiling_face:

Yes, thank you for clarifying what you were trying to say. Also thank you for the term transrational. The analogy I think of is putting on / taking off night vision goggles. Neither my natural eyes nor night vision would be best in all situations and it’s useful to be able to pop in and out of rational perspectives and use science but not worship it.
Though I would also like to add my own perspective as to why I disbelieve by default and require something besides testimony before I believe something.
It has to do with when an individual or group goes beyond just describing what is true for them and expands it to include me, often expressing the belief that I and other disbelievers are not equivalent to them because we do not accept their claims. Often it isn’t just an expression of “I had this experience” but also “I had this experience so therefore I have the right to impose my conclusions about reality from that experience onto you”. This does not always happen, but it is very common. From my own point of view, I am not a disbeliever of OBE or visitations, but my default is to disbelieve the conclusions people make about me from those experiences. In my opinion it’s common for people to use the mythic to fuel a desire for power over others, and this is the method that religions have used to hold power over populations for millennia. It’s a “this therefore that” fallacy and not always but it is very common for people to fall into this fallacy.

Yes, I understand what you’re saying about people imposing their conclusions about reality from their personal experiences onto you. That kind of authoritarianism tries to usurp or infringe upon personal freedom, whether it’s in the realm of religion, politics and culture, or interpersonal interaction. I don’t care for it either. I think there’s ample authoritarianism all up and down the developmental scale in particular personalities, but the traditional/amber-mythic level might be the hotseat of it, with the legitimate interest in law and order (authority), rules and roles having also a warped and unhealthy shadow manifestation.

A toast to night goggles :slightly_smiling_face: