Ukrainian Integral Perspectives on the Ongoing Invasion of Ukraine

Kateryna Yasko and Vytautas Bučiūnas crossed the border into Lithuania three days before this conversation took place, after a five-day exodus from Kyiv, following the invasion of Ukraine by Russia. This conversation is a call for action and support of the incredibly brave Ukrainian people, and illuminates their willingness to fight to the death to throw out the invaders who are there to crush their freedom and make Ukraine a colony of Putin’s Russia.

This is an informative, inspirational, and heartbreaking dialogue with two exceptionally insightful Integral leaders from the Ukraine—about propaganda and myth-making in our post-truth world, about integrating power, force, and love, about a new worldwide unity, and how the Integral perspective might pave the way towards world peace.

Recorded March 5, 2022.

Topics & Timestamps

  • Witnessing the beginning of this phase of Putin’s aggression: the Revolution of Dignity and the Annexation of Crimea in 2013 and 2014 (04:29)
  • The Russian propaganda machine: painting Ukraine as a fascist country of Nazis (06:32)
  • Putin’s masterful creation of a myth in this post-truth world (10:05)
  • This is a fight for truth (17:40)
  • Is there anything good about Putin? (23:51)
  • Kateryna & Vytautas’ experience: the beginning of the invasion and the exodus to Lithuania (26:31)
  • Sirens and bomb shelters are becoming routine; fear has turned to anger (39:55)
  • Europe is united, NATO is united, Ukraine is united (42:15)
  • How this invasion has reinforced Second Tier consciousness in the West (44:49)
  • How long can Ukraine hold out? Are the sanctions enough? What about a Russian oil embargo? (46:58)
  • What can Western countries do, what are they not doing, and why sanctions are so useful (50:58)
  • Russian oligarchs and Putin in his bunker (54:50)
  • Do we need to allow Putin to save face or just fight to the bitter end? (58:21)
  • Denazification, demilitarization…dePutinification and other parallels (01:01:41)
  • Putin’s narrative and the Russian Orthodox Church (01:03:01)
  • Europa = Gayropa, Putin has assumed the role of protector of traditional values (01:06:18)
  • How can we use the Integral metaperspective to heal what’s happening? (01:10:43)
  • Why what Ukraine is doing is so inspiring: fighting out of love, not fear (01:12:05)
  • Ukraine and others’ “showing up” is very Second Tier (01:13:06)
  • One nation has opened the hearts of the whole world. How shall we integrate this and foster the care and compassion to steer it in a constructive direction? (01:14:18)
  • Integrating power and love: facing our need to engage power with force (01:15:30)
  • A new focus on World Peace from a Second Tier perspective (01:19:21)
  • Glory to Ukraine, glory to heroes (01:22:15)

So we applaud Ukrainian Nationalism, denigrate US Nationalism at every turn, recommend the Ukrainian Nationalists “take up arms” to defend themselves against oppressors, demand US Nationalists surrender arms so they can be oppressed. Application of Integral Theory in the real world is very tricky and nuanced. Very sneaky really…

I Stand with Ukraine!


Surprised by the dualism here. Was hoping how Integral would work with what’s happening to Ukraine. Only heard “Russia Bad. Ukraine Good.”

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The Big Dipper rises over my shoulder,
pouring its portion of the spiraling galaxy
into my ear

In silence, I seem to hear the faraway
explosions, stars and bombs bursting in air,
fireworks splitting the All

Modern echoes of the fractalizing Beginning:
the Great Bear birthing a new order somehow
akin to the Big Bang delivering the Dipper

Who or what revulsed in horror at the Origins?
Who or what sorrowed at what death, what loss?

When the oil fields burned in Kuwait, I was reduced
to element and sense, vowed to never cry again
over the stink of war

At the start of the Iraqi fight, I meditated on the true
shock and awe: the Mona Lisa smile round in the sky–
a golden full moon awake, intimate, mysterious

Both hawks and doves fly about my house,
sit on the rooftops, the screech and coo
in my own being giving way to quiet empty space–

And yet,

I have cried again, tears for glory made and unmade
and made anew; creation and destruction, one breath
Inhale, exhale, and the gap: the pause of possibility

There is a certain peacefulness in the hollow shell.
For the Continuance that escapes the battered form,
the chance, the need, for peacemaking of another kind

In silence, can you hear the faraway…spiraling?
Can you hear the vows…intimate and mysterious?
Can you hear the need…the pause…the chance?