Great points ray. And I particularly like how “isolation vs. intimacy” is yet another refraction of the core “agency and communion” polarity that sits at the very heart of the integral model.
What is striking is that this lack of knowing what they believe in, and a complete obsession with being against whatever another group is.
I think this is well said. And of course, we can see this on both sides of the political divide, as this sort of thinking is a hallmark of regressive tribalism wherever we see it — the notion of “us” gets reduced to “not-them”. For the GOP, however, I think this became the end that justifies any/all means, which helps alleviate the cognitive dissonance that comes with defending hypocrisy — for example, claiming to be pro-free speech, pro-business, and anti-government interference, while simultaneously using government to punish a business for practicing free speech that they don’t like. But as long as it’s positioned as a way to punish a common enemy (those evil leftist groomers), there is no perceived hypocrisy.
Also, I am a sucker for a good developmental chart It’s interesting to compare “life stages” such as these, to “developmental stages” such as we discuss all the time here in integral land. Because for each of those core conflicts listed on that chart, there are responses from red, from amber, from orange, etc., depending on the total developmental capacity of each of those life stages (you won’t see green responses to preschool-stage responses, for example. Obviously, I haven’t met very many postmodern pre-schoolers!)
If I’m not mistaken, you or I can define holons however we like. You’re just choosing to not define one for the conservatives so you can claim something about “those people”, or “holon” or whatever dehumanizing term of abstraction you come up with.
I’ll state again, that even if Haidt is considered a “conservative”, which I’m not certain that’s the case, he’s definitely not widely known by conservatives. I’m glad you’re at least inching out of the Far Left-o-sphere a little, but using Haidt as authority on conservatism puts you on very thin intellectual ice.
And just think about how little influence K-boy, Lizzie and Mittster will have come January.
And just think about how little influence K-boy, Lizzie and Mittster will have come January.
Yes, kind of proves the point about moderates being driven from the party. Which you seem to celebrate.
If I’m not mistaken, you or I can define holons however we like.
You are mistaken. These words have meanings, and context depends on understanding which meanings we are referring to at any given time. If I criticize the GOP (a social holon), that doesn’t mean I am criticizing conservative “concerns, drives, or goals” as enacted by individual citizens.
It is a cowardly act for the GOP to abandon platforms and debates. Does that mean I am calling all conservatives cowards? Of course not. Context matters.
I’ll state again, that even if Haidt is considered a “conservative”, which I’m not certain that’s the case, he’s definitely not widely known by conservatives.
Your point? I don’t care how “widely known” he is among conservatives, he absolutely nailed his point. Which happens to align with the same point I’ve been making for years.
Let me guess — that is the only example you can think of, right? Nothing from recent headlines involving a small but very popular rodent?
Or the various other threats made by GOP officials to punish businesses for exercising 1st amendment rights?
As for O’Keefe, Project Veritas is absolute trash. Tabloid stuff, and they’ve been caught manufacturing and/or manipulating evidence several times in the past. But I basically agree with the ACLU here:
“Project Veritas has engaged in disgraceful deceptions, and reasonable observers might not consider their activities to be journalism at all. Nevertheless, the precedent set in this case could have serious consequences for press freedom. Unless the government had good reason to believe that Project Veritas employees were directly involved in the criminal theft of the diary, it should not have subjected them to invasive searches and seizures.”
To bring the thread back to Elon’s very big purchase, I’m seeing just how biblical both of our parties can get. The left seems to be locked into a perpetual “sky is falling” apocalyptic mode, while the right thinks they have found their latest savior figure who can single-handedly save us from the sins of their enemies.
Personally, I think we’ll be okay, I just think it’s absolutely ridiculous that wealth disparity has reached such a point where these kinds of buyouts are possible in the first place.
I also think it’s interesting that our two largest social media networks will be owned by two individuals who present so many clear indicators of autism. Which is kind of awesome on the one hand — yay neurodiversity! — but can also create unique challenges on the other, as individuals who have a hard time with social cues create networks that in turn shape social cues for everyone else.
Seems the Democratically elected FL legislators and governor did what they thinks best for Florida. Do you have a problem with this?
Gotcha, it’s all fair game, even constitutional violations, as long as they are being done by elected parties. In which case, O’Keefe was raided because democratically elected federal leaders did what they thought was best for the country. I guess you have no room to criticize!
I mean, that’s fine I guess, but it also tells me that these claims that the GOP is for free-speech and don’t want government interference in peoples’ private or business lives are not to be taken seriously, and reinforces my point that the GOP is no longer a principles-driven party. As long as we are hurting the “right people”, anything goes!
You do realize credibility ratings for CDNC, MSDNC, WaPo and NYT are actually lower than approval ratings for the Leftist majority government.
Why would anyone engage with a Chris Cuomo, Don Lemmon, Tobin, Zucker, Stall, or even Wallace after their complete exposure as disinformation quacks?
They can take turns hosting the Democrats Q w A’s provided by the future DNC Chair “debates”. LOL
You do realize credibility ratings for CDNC, MSDNC, WaPo and NYT are actually lower than approval ratings for the Leftist majority government.
Any evidence for this claim? Not that it would be too surprising. Just wondering where you get your data.
Why would anyone engage with a Chris Cuomo, Don Lemmon, Tobin, Zucker, Stall, or even Wallace after their complete exposure as disinformation quacks?
No, I get it, GOP candidates should only talk to honest brokers like Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, and Jeanine Pirro. Much lower chance of being asked difficult questions, losing control of their narrative, or exposing their base to criticisms that will never be repeated by their preferred outlets.
Didn’t realize FBI were elected and had law making authority.
Ah okay, good to know the Biden administration would be 100% in the clear here, it was just that notoriously left-leaning FBI.
You didn’t do so well in Civics 101?
Ah, more personal character attacks when people disagree with you. Well done!
Come on stud, you’re yucking it up. Playing butthurt isn’t a good look… I’ll grab another Estrella and you roll yourself another doob. It’s all good brother.
Personal attacks are explicitly forbidden in our road rules. Try to have discussions without calling people “moron” or “idiot” or insulting their intelligence. Otherwise we’ll have to give you a timeout in order to let passions cool. And that is something I very much don’t like or want to do. But I also refuse to allow this to become a hostile space. Disagreement is fine, good faith arguments are fine, but personal insults are out of bounds. Please be more respectful of your discussion partners and fellow community members.
That is great advice which, when followed, prevents us from feeling like we need to make personal attacks against each other.
Seriously though, this is one of the greatest dysfunctions of online communication — the hostility and rudeness that comes from disembodied and often anonymous comments. It’s all shadow stuff, and only creates resentment and further hostility. We are trying to do better in this space. I put a lot of effort into creating frames and containers that can help facilitate good faith discussions in this community, and as an administrator, it’s my duty to enforce a healthy integral ethos however possible. So please hear what I’m saying, and adjust your approach accordingly. Thanks man!
I’ve noticed @FermentedAgave goes in cycles with the moon phases. He’ll be distant for a week, starting with friendly and getting on a bit, then just “ok” for a week, then about week three he starts posting more and more, then this builds up in a crescendo as the new moon approaches.
Could be a chemical imbalance that would benefit from estrogen therapy to keep you more even keeled.
I’m not a doctor though. I’m just fascinated by people following lunar cycles in their behavior.
That’s pretty personal stuff here @corey-devos
I’ve been diagnosed by Dr Bennet with dementia, psychosis, childhood trauma / stunting after he bumbles across Eriksons work, now I’m in need of hormone therapy. Seems like Tip-o-the-Spear is making highly personal attacks. Nice dynamic…
It’s interesting to compare “life stages” such as these, to “developmental stages” such as we discuss all the time here in integral land. Because for each of those core conflicts listed on that chart, there are responses from red, from amber, from orange, etc., depending on the total developmental capacity of each of those life stages (you won’t see green responses to preschool-stage responses, for example. Obviously, I haven’t met very many postmodern pre-schoolers!)