SCLx8 + select last LE per shuffle
[Preamble]
The Brain - As I said, it is not so much how each individual interprets any particular GM - either coming from me or you or anyone else - Rather it is the fact that a message is generated. - A Sturdy Place - Dance - Leave a Trail - https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3 - The Message Generator Process
AP= [=The Dolphins and Whales IF: there is a Cosmic Mind THEN: Eventually, any species which survives long enough to continue along with the unfolding universe will eventually discover that and invent ways in which to engage. = 2172]
[Two One Seven Two = 215]
[215]
I will leave that there
Without Judgement
Sad Room to Explore
Freedom in The Knowing
Thoughts and Forts
Staying up all night
Tired of the Nonsense
What matters most
Batten down the hatches
Beyond Belief Recovery
GM: Panpsychist [panpsychism is the view that the mind or a mindlike aspect is a fundamental and ubiquitous feature of reality. ]
Leave room for nature
It Is One Of Those Things
Active Imagination (see technique)
Interoperate https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1073756#p1073756
[quote]IF
There is an actual Cosmic Mind THEN eventually such scientist will discover it.[/quote]
What matters most
Forgive
Those internal things which make one shine
Quantum Mechanics
It’s a fish eats fish world…going landy doesn’t change the fact that things are fleeing from things which are fleeing and as nature would have it, how is this more immoral than funny?
Completely http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13776864&postcount=296
[quote]William: Pixel is explaining to me that whatever ‘IT’ was [because it obviously existed] can not be described as a physical thing. To do so it to ‘lie’ about it.
Assuming for the present that Pixel42 is only saying that Pixel42 is unable to use the English language to describe what ‘IT’ is, we can be grateful that Isaac can and does, in his The Final Question" story.
Furthermore, I can also do this.
“IT” was the absolute sum total of all data [knowledge] contained within the absolute consciousness of something so infinitesimally tiny that “IT” cannot be considered to be physical in nature.
William: The many varied belief systems involved with Christianity/Christian interpretations of biblical script are a bit like navigating through a mystical forest…
GM: Sun energy
Telepathy [the communication of impressions of any kind from one mind to another, independently of the recognized channels of sense.]
“Off you go to your quarters”
Enchanted
Disagreeable https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qWweOIOTJ4 [Is Life a Game ? Alan Watts about the Happening of Existence] RTS [3:59]
The Overarching
Insignificant
The Way We Feel Unification
…and the way forward, eyes wide open
The ongoing objective is to get this knowledge out into the public domain
Simple
Inordinately [to an unusually or disproportionately large degree; excessively.]
The Elephant
Beyond Focus 4
Intelligent Consciousness
[quote]Beyond Focus 4: other systems
I have been asked several times if there is anything ‘beyond’ Focus 4. The answer is, to my knowledge, within our particular system there are just 4 Primary areas. But consciousness doesn’t end there. Consciousness is infinite. There may well be an infinite number of other systems either like ours or perhaps wildly different. Nobody to my knowledge knows anything about these potential other systems.
Monroe talks of ‘Focus 34/35’, but as I have said earlier, I believe that Monroe was experiencing something else. I believe his F35 experiences were actually relating to areas of our Wider Physical, where alternate physical dimensions (within our F1 to F4 system) seem to converge. Ha ha, no wonder I couldn’t find it!
The interesting aspect about these other physical worlds within our system and the weird thing about them, is that they all occupy the same physical space. The actual characteristics of the different physical dimensions within our system can be wildly different but they all have this one thing in common, in that they occupy the same space. Anyhow, what ‘separates’ them, if you like, are these Trans-Dimensional areas in consciousness that allows each physical universe to overlay on one another.
Now, I have it on good authority that it IS possible to ‘travel’ between Trans-Dimensional areas; when I say travel I mean actual physical travel. It is also possible to do this non-physically as well, so I am told. So my theory is that these UFO sightings might in fact be a kind of ‘bleed through’ from another Trans-Dimensional area: an area that has people living within it who have already learned how to design some kind of craft with the ability to travel between physical dimensions.
Anyway, back to the potential for other systems outside of our own F1 to F4 model:
From reading Monroe’s later work, I wonder where the heck he was sometimes. He was way out, but not in Focus 4 terms. There was something else. Seriously, I reckon he was about to attempt to step into another system of consciousness from Focus 3: entering into an ‘Extra-Dimensional’ state that is outside of our F1 to F4 system completely: that is what I have been trying to study for ages, the possibility of these Extra-Dimensional areas. I reckon that is why his physical was put at risk. Okay, I’m guessing now, I admit, but I am going to completely retrace his footsteps in the future.
If he were trying to enter another dimension totally, i.e. another system, then that is just incredible. That is not Focus 3, 4 or 5, that is just completely into the unknown…and I mean total unknown. Unless he was attempting to enter Focus 4 while holding a complete objective knowing of that fact. That would just be crazy. You’d just be short-circuiting every subjective energy circuit that ever was. I doubt anyone could have the objective will to do that; just too many natural laws against you.
I just wonder what on earth he found and what secrets there are still to be unlocked from Monroe. I’m going to begin again from page one and work through it until that final piece of the jigsaw falls into place.
Frank Kepple Resource[/quote]
All life
Dream journal
Re the hard-nosed skeptics
There is nothing wrong with ‘disorder’ other than one interpreting the universe as disorderly.
Be they seeds or suns, or be it that suns are seeds, it is all part of the universe, and everything that we acknowledge as the universe, came from a tiny seed.
Your Own Individual Actions
Wide Walk Welcoming
Once Upon a Time Here, there, everywhere a ‘bang bang’
William: Yet again, this reminds me of the visuals we get from the Mandelbrot Set.
[12:37]
[Tributary Zones]
More to follow…
GM: Inner work
The ride is wild
Contact
Watchful
Equals
Vagitus
Not a Problem!
Perhaps we can deconstruct some of these pernicious views.
Transformation
A Judgmental System
Mapping Wholeness
How to effectively deal with anger…not by ignoring it, but through understanding it and developing means by which it - as an externalized emotional-based energy - can be transformed into something more appropriate to the situation we find ourselves lost within.
Something Our movements can illuminate the path toward that vision.
Pulling its own weight
Prison Planet
The Ruru https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1096595#p1096595
Read On https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1087668#p1087668
[quote]William: While we who walk through life hereabouts all head towards our experience of bodily deaths, we are best not to run away from it screaming…might as well use our time here to prepare for that inevitable.
Christ IS the hope that death is not the end of conscious experience…and that said continued experience is a happier one than the previous monstrosity.
So we diligently pick the fruit we enjoy the most, which sorts folk into various categories in preparation for the inevitable…and the living support the living in their understanding that life might be all that there ever can be and is.
I myself prefer the thrill of seeing Mother Earth as She truly is - some demonic-like entity who has been manifesting Her particular projections out into that which She is awakening to - slowly and surely… and in the process, I hope to witness therein a transformation of a demon-like entity into a god-like entity…and be a part of that rather than dressing it up n too much fluff that I distort things far too impractically.[/quote]
The Number One Nine Two
[search 192 spiritual]
[quote]William: Have you been told this … or do you have it - in your own subjective experience - that the invisible God YHWH - speaks to you?
Because, if it is the former, then YHWH is a “mute, invisible god” who ‘speaks’ to you through others. If those others report to you that they have seen the invisible, then they are reporting that YHWH is not truly an invisible God.
If it is the latter, then how do you ascertain that the invisible voice of YHWH is the actual voice of the “first truly invisible God”?[/quote][/quote]
GM: The basic repertoire of mystic experience is drawn from the repertoire of Death Phenomena
Deactivate all “push buttons” William: Yes - my experience with out of body allowed this to occur as a natural result
GM: Unconscious Mind Inertia
Put That Fire Out
Keep an Eye On
All The Theories Regarding “The Gods”
System of Giving Energy
Unconditional Earth Entity In William’s Room
♬Plastic tanks and battleships nothing more than toys What harm could propaganda do to the minds of little boys But Johnny he grew up too fast to live his life long dream The first time was his last to hear a dying soldier scream♬
Coming From QueenBee
The Body of God
Think With The heart - Feel With The Mind
The “Oh My God” Particle
Consciousness
Potential of Milieu [a person’s social environment.]
Like a doting parent https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1096595#p1096595
Collective
A grateful heart Open your chakras
Placing aside the childish not the childlike
Childlike https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1081283#p1081283
[quote]William: Often, when it comes to what I call “The Question of GOD”, the cry from non-believers is “show us the [scientific] evidence!” and other variants on that theme.
In examining Theism in general, I find that most beliefs have some kind of image attached to their various ideas of GOD/Gods.
Even so, these GOD/Gods all reside elsewhere, rather than are fixtures within the universe, so one simply cannot point to any and answer the demand.[/quote]
William: It seems to me that with the understanding of the phrase “Spacetime is Doomed” there is clear indication that nontheists/materialists no longer have an argument against the idea that we exist within a creation [therefore implying a creator] and in that, there is no point in engaging with such arguments.
For me, this means that the focus is on engaging with theists with the idea that we exist within a simulation - which is what the thread topic that the focus-post of these recent GMs - is about.
The difficulty therein, is attempting to convince those theists who are so sure that the physical universe is fundamental reality, and have beliefs which are dependent upon that being the case, to accept the evidence that Spacetime is Doomed…
It appears that here, you are relying upon an image of GOD which we can agree comes through the particular culture you and I came through experience of.
I see also that you have included the factor of all-powerfulness too.
Critique of this image has merit, but no merit if the critique is simply focused on GOD not existing.
Thus it could be argued that we are within and experiencing the thoughts of GOD and what we experience and call “reality” is actually GOD thinking thoughts.
Unless we are actually GOD, in which case GOD can exist.
Biblically this idea of “The Breath of GOD” equates to GOD-Consciousness giving life to the imagined forms and thus experiencing those form from those forms particular subjective places in the overall thoughts of GOD.
This concept also bleeds over into the Eastern Culture of Humanity - many of which already stipulate GOD inseparable from Creation…although it could also be said that Creation is inseparable from GOD.
An all-powerful GODs thoughts could create this Universe…
GM: Everything/All
One is not wrong
Communication with the Deeper Levels of Self
Imaginative Realities
Ontology [the branch of metaphysics dealing with the nature of being. a set of concepts and categories in a subject area or domain that shows their properties and the relations between them.]
The things you can see only when you slow down
Salinas crop circle
What Is The Point?
William: To advertise?
@ TS= [2:05]
GM: Matter and psyche are one and the same.
The Effect You Have On Others
Numb
The Hologram of Deception – Yawn
Christian Folklore
Ship
Though the Serpent rules the Shadow The Lord Here-and-now
Placing aside the childish not the childlike
This isn’t about thoughts and language. This is about behaviours and actions.
That can be shoved back into whatever hole it came from
The Abrahamic idea of GOD
Aeon [an indefinite and very long period of time.]
Training the mind https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1096595#p1096595
Insight
Comment
Giving our best https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1088287#p1088287
Science of Consciousness
Is It Our Nature Mysteriously missing That Is A Good Question
Union
Your Own Individual Actions
Links And Symbols
According
Ugly is just “in the eye of the beholder” as is Beauty.
The Divine Darkness
Mission
Occupation
Privacy
The Bidden Zone
Intelligent Consciousness
Atheism cannot be defined through defining “atheists” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GldRtyEqPt8 [Reefer Madness: The Science of Marijuana with Neil deGrasse Tyson and Dr. Staci Gruber][RTS=22:55]
Self-Immurement http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13765495&postcount=22
William: I think that this is connected with the idea expressed in otseng’s recent post;
[quote]Even if the universe were to somehow collapse and start another Big Bang, entropy would still have to increase. So, eventually, the cycle of Big Bangs would have to stop and end up in a final heat death.
On a smaller scale, we see this in the impossibility of creating a perpetual motion machine. The reason it’s impossible to create any closed system to do work forever is because of the second law of thermodynamics.{SOURCE}[/quote]
William: My reply to that;
[quote]Many Christians believe the bible tells it, that they will be resurrected to enjoy life in this universe forever…
How do you reconcile the eventual heat death of the universe, with such beliefs?[/quote]
GM: Sophia The Mother Story
Any God-Mind claiming to be responsible for human beings existing, is going to have problems to deal with re that
How stories are created…
Naked truth One Language Intelligent Network
Dive deep
From First Principles
Controlled by fear
Active Imagination (see technique)
In The Back of My Mind
Mixture https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1088074#p1088074
A: [quote]What does the physical existence provide for us?
Experience.
Creating personality through the experience.[/quote][/quote]
Links And Symbols
Wakey Wakey
16-20-12-09-03-11-08
[quote]William: A clock is a physical mechanism which is designed to physically represent time as conceptualized by human consciousness/understanding.
A physical representation of a conceptual idea, is in no way an example of time as a fundamental reality.
It is like someone claiming that the written word “Unicorn” is the same thing as an actual physical Unicorn, when in truth, it is simply a symbolic representation of something which is not able to be shown to exist as anything other than a concept of the mind.[/quote]
3. https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1092717#p1092717
[quote]William: As you may or may not know, the Jewish perception of the Hebrew culture and accompanying beliefs about YHWH [as GOD] was that they did not have the notion that GOD had enemies.
Their notion was that YHWH used what humans think of as “Good/Evil” as YHWH saw fit to do, and the only enemy/adversary/accuser anyone had to concern their selves about, was YHWH.[/quote]
11. http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13772218&postcount=184
[quote]William: I do not reject any idea. Questioning any idea is not the same thing as rejecting any idea.
[/quote]
8. Counterfactual [contrasted with indicatives, which are generally restricted to discussing open possibilities.]
GM: Acid test
Milky Way Mother
This Translates To That.
Perpetually
William: [420]
The Dark Night of The Soul Adjusted Reality
An expression of personal incredulity
This Perpetually Translates To That.
Rolling down the rails of the ridiculous
GM: Action Consciousness Incarnates Intelligent Directions The Mainstream Program Story-Tellers Trustworthy
Is it possible that the infinitesimal super hot object preceding the Big Bang, didn’t in fact contain the vastness of the matter within our universe but rather, was the event in which the energy from the blast resulted in the formation of Galaxies and everything else which we call “The Universe” from the field of inert material which already existed as ‘space’? Matter + Energy + Space = Time. https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1096595#p1096595
GM: Think About It
I Think We Can Safely Say Human beings can do it the hard way or the easy way, but either way, the job will get done.
The Home Of The…
“Perhaps the difficulty involved with defining Atheism so that all Atheists agree with the same definition, is that atheism is an unnatural response to nature.”
Falling asleep
Prison Planet
Coordinate
The Played Piece
William: [397]
Prison Planet Coordinate The Played Piece
The Natural-Neutral Default Position
Sober journey into self-realization
The Hologram of Deception Tied To The Moon
GM: Without and Within
Entities of Particular Belief Systems
Out and about in the open
Reconnect with Innocence - It will be the beginning of your reintroduction to your True Self.
Show Me Your Soul
All fingers and thumbs
GM: Cycle
Remind
Who Knows
Big
Spirituality
Conviction
William: Big Spirituality Conviction = 321
It requires corrective action = 321
GM: “Does the possibility that being unable to detect something as existing, allow for the right to include zero as representing something real, which is not?”
William: Since nothing cannot be shown to exist, then zero has to represent something.
GM: The Hierarchy
Command
Suffering
William: The Hierarchy Command Suffering = 296
Now isn’t the time for tears = 296
GM: Genius
Delineating The Fine Art of Not Being Offended Inordinately
Visible
Re-channel
Mind Body Soul
Culture
Accept
OWOBIK
William: Accept One Whom Ought Be Inwardly Known = 402
Instructions on what to do with data = 402
[quote]First Things First
[Closer to The Source
Who woulda thought!]
If one continues to view GOD through the dressings of a book, then the focus/worship is on the costume and not what resides underneath the costume…one will never get to first base going in that direction…[/quote]
GM:Like With
[quote]William: This assumes Jesus remains static in the framework of the history the Bible presents him as - the biblical Jesus - fixed.
Over two thousand years have passed since then. Are we to assume that Jesus would not move with the times - and indeed [re The Control Room] not have influenced said times? [/quote][/quote]
GM: Witty
Invention isn’t actually what is going on though. Realization is what is occurring.
Simulated for the purpose of?
William: Given the nature of the experience - one such purpose would be to conduct experiment into the nature of independent mind - minds independent of other minds…or at least a semblance of that re experience…to see what might be achieved by such minds within the nature of the reality simulation…as I wrote today in answer to another post;
[quote]William: We cannot state for sure that we didn’t help create the simulation we then entered into for the experience.
As some other entity [rather than human] we could have had our part to play in creating this simulation, and purposefully made it so that the human avatar we would experience the universe through, would sufficiently block our memory of a prior existence, so that the experience of this universe could be had without knowledge of said former existence.
[/quote]
[quote]William: Or minds, independent of the direct influence of this reality experience we are currently having.
If the minds which created this simulation, were not independent [such as hive mindedness] then, no matter the number of individual minds, none would be independent and so all could be considered the one overall mind…and this could be part of the motivation for why that mind created this universe/human instruments, so as to experience what it is like to have an experience of an independent individual mind…[/quote]
GM: Translucent
Holographic Experiential Reality Simulations
In Denial What Is Our Purpose? My advice to the reader is to follow the links
Encounters
Challenge
The Truth is Irresistible Once Realised
Not Right
Your Own Individual Actions
Seeds are evidence that something large can derive from something tiny.
Objectives
The Creator Atman Here-and-now
Two sides of the same coin Zero In On It Interpretation Narrow
[quote]William: It is not so much ‘counting’ on coherent messages being generated [GMs] - because it happens every time it is done.
The universe does have an underlying order - this system simply taps into that reality and that is why it produces GMs.[/quote]
GM: The Banner of Apotheosis
Dance
“Any generated messages which demands such, should be removed from the table of discussion, will have to do much better than declare that “The answer is not ‘God’.””
[A Degenerative Force to Existence]
Life on this planet, as a human being, is difficult.
William: It would appear that this was part of the design of the Game-ware…
GM: The art of relationship
GM: True randomness does not exist In The Spirit These Were Given
The Immune System
Aeon [an indefinite and very long period of time.]
Against the grain Beaming Out Beaming In
Water https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaXpDsjVumk [YAHWEH | Shocking Truth Behind The Original Bible Story! Episode 3][RTS=23:15]
GM: It is a good sign when a non-theist cannot argue against the evidence you present
The Face of God
Musing On The Mother Act I
[quote] William: FTL
Feeling the tiredness in my feet, as I put one foot in front of another, and thinking to myself
“I’m going to sleep well tonight.”
Seeing a fire at a distance
“Awesome! I wonder if they would let me borrow a flame to get a fire started.”
Taking a few steps closer to the distant fire, I hear Mom’s voice in my head
“You know how people are nowadays, they may shoot you.”
Slightly shaking my head with a smile
"I’ve got to talk to Mom about how much news she watches. Although…you never know.
Calling out from a distance to the one by the fire
“Excuse me, I don’t mean to trouble you…”
As I am contemplating my thoughts in the opportunity of my aloneness, I hear the subtle hoot of warning from an owl - and before long hear the cracking of small branches underfoot, signifying someone approaching…I focus on the direction of the sound, and then a voice from the darkness calls;
“Excuse me, I don’t mean to trouble you…”
I wait until the owner of the voice walks into the light of the fire…
“No trouble at all…please come and share the warmth of this fire with me. My name is Manu. Manu Iti.”
I stand and offer and extended hand of friendship…The person before me looks weary and a little flustered…{SOURCE}[/quote]
GM: Awake
Beyond Belief
The Love is within the Communion
See-Through
The Attitude
Healing
I AM WE ARE
[quote]Re The Theist and non-Theist Brain
Is it the case that
non-theists are simply unable to ‘get their head around ideas’ which are outside of the idea that we are simply emergent properties of brains, [every other idea is gibberish/gobbledygook]
or
are they just being disingenuous?[/quote]
GM: “Zero” must have to represent something which does exist but is largely unseen - and “Consciousness” fits that description.
GM: I Am
Discovery is finding things that exist.
Understanding and connecting with the source of our language is vital to that vision
Listen
The discovering of what makes the Realm of Humanity “tick”
Dream journal
Trustworthy
Stop. Listen. Observe. Wonder.
WingMakers
Out and about in the open
Access
Gateway Luminous
Pervasive
Be grateful to everyone
Jocular
I hear thee hear thee…
The Bidden Zone
No Country For Old Men
Wanting to change the rules making more complicated rather than keeping things simple.
Added Significance
“The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_(Gnosticism)
Memories Unbound
Points of Reference
The Original People https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1081827#p1081827
William: [quote]Re: Machines and morality
[quote]William: To my mind, everything does not start with will at all, but with the mechanism which enables will to become - in the case of our recognised will - from Human consciousness.
Everything to do with human will, begins with human consciousness.
Therefore, will is a function of that which everything [to do with human function] begins with first having consciousness…will derives from consciousness and cannot be considered to be the source of everything to do with human expression.
Will, is an expression of consciousness. It was not will which created consciousness but consciousness which created will.[/quote][/quote]
William: [quote]Re: In The Beginning…
[Replying to The Tanager in post #125]
It means that when there is an alternative given, that can be examined, logically.
This assumes Jesus remains static in the framework of the history the Bible presents him as - the biblical Jesus - fixed.
Over two thousand years have passed since then. Are we to assume that Jesus would not move with the times - and indeed [re The Control Room] not have influenced said times?
Historical scholarship is simply that. If we are to believe that Jesus has been active behind the scenes - in N.T. Wright’s “Control Room” analogy, then we best not assume that the influence of that room is forever stuck in and dependent upon - that one frame of ancient history.
In the days of Noah. There is a comparison drawn. [Matthew 24:37-39] couple with [Genesis 6:5]
What reason would Jesus have to return if things are balanced. Why do Christians believe in the second coming if not that they believe the world is more wicked than goodly?
I say that the metaphor for YHVH breath of life is the same.[Genesis 2:7]
Some Christians believe that the soul is what that breath is. The soul integrates with the Human experience and personality is formed through that integrated experience.
The instigative/compelling influence of the soul over the personality appears to be the Holy Ghost…perhaps the soul of YHVH, more directly?..perhaps reminding the soul attached to the personality, that it is integral to the personalities development within the framework of the personalities experience, for purposes which extend beyond the borders of materialism.
Please explain why something which is ‘enhanced’ is ‘the same’.
This implies that Christianity has it wrong re the belief that when one dies, one goes to Heaven - or alternatively - Hell.
What evidence can you provide that the ancients Jesus was in contact with at that time, believed differently?
What is to say that if, what they did believe in was not true, that Jesus - knowing differently - wanted them to understand that their beliefs were in error?
Given the account of the telling from Jesus re YHVH reality [Kingdom] plus the ascension, how can your thinking otherwise, be counted as acceptable?
That is not my point. I am simply taking what you quoted and showing that N.T. Wright is describing something which can be taken in the context of ST.
Jesus went somewhere and we should be able to agree that where he did go had something to do with YVHV Kingdom, and unless that Kingdom is somewhere hidden in the Universe nearby - [perhaps in the hollow of earths moon?] - based upon what Jesus did say about the YHVH Kingdom, what reason do we have NOT to think he was speaking of a different realm?
Point being, whether it is N.T. Wright or C.S. Lewis, ST can explain the metaphors and if Jesus’ ascension is not counted as a metaphor but a real event, then we are left to wonder where he went - once the clouds concealed his form from the eye witnesses.
That is a non-theistic approach re biblical stories and not appropriate to faith. I have seen Christians use this as a means to argue against things which are not aligned with their particular beliefs - one personal example - my being told that experiences I have shared over the years on this message board “could be delusional.”
I expect non-theists to argue in that manner, but reject the validity of such argument from theists calling themselves “Christians” and promoting faith-based beliefs which themselves, do not facilitate skepticism…
Having a foot in both camps doesn’t bode well with honestly confessing one is a theist/Christian, as far as I can see.
Re our particular conversation here, what “key issues” are you speaking to?
ST in it’s narrow view might facilitate your reasoning for not agreeing, however, in the broader sense “existing within a creation/existing within a simulation” bundles all apparent differences under the one idea.
The distinct philosophical views might be for particular purposes?
I am viewing the whole concept [we exist within a created thing] as the overall ‘philosophy’ rather than focusing upon any particular flavor.
Re C.S. Lewis, the wardrobe into another realm represents a gateway between one reality experience and an alternative one.
Whatever philosophy Lewis was using in relation to his renditioned storyline, only differentiates what kind of simulation one experiences. It does not seek to promote that his portrayal of it is the only one, or the overall one…each speak of the same thing, in different ways, much like the same can be said of the differences between the Star Wars Universe and the Star Trek Universe…different universes same, simulation principle.
[In that, “Universe” is another way of saying “Simulation”.]
All such stories are of course modeled off of this one, from where they are authored, but there is no way of telling if the inspiration comes from the influence of actual simulated realms, or are purely figments of the authors own imaginations.
This is what I was attempting to convey to you when we were both interacting in the “Around The Campfire” Universe… as said universe was described as the hub of all Simulated Universes…
Why do you support whatever belief you adhere to? And what about ST has you concerned, re those beliefs?
The math agrees with ST. ST agrees with the mathematics of quantum physics.
The evidence is more than just a theory - it is a mathematical theorem. A theorem is a statement which has been proved true by a special kind of logical argument called a rigorous proof.
The statement which has been proved true, is that “Spacetime is Doomed.” This is to say, that spacetime is NOT the base reality which materialists have insisted that it is.
This bodes with theism, and Christianity being theistic means that this should also bode with Christians.
Yet you - as a Christian - are arguing for the materialist interpretation of this universe experience.
Given “Spacetime is Doomed” is relatively new to human insight and thus not popular in terms of humans knowing about that, one can accept that arguments such as yours are coming from a place of ignorance, but the information is there for anyone with internet access to find, so the idea would be for one to get knowledgeable with new information being presented and, in doing so, drop old concepts for new ones.
[quote]I think heaven and earth are part of the one base reality. I don’t think heaven is a construct of the physical universe. It has nothing to do with the IF…THEN you mentioned above. I don’t think that would follow.
I see no good reason to see that our universe is not part of the base reality.[/quote]
There is very good reason, as I just mentioned.
ST gives us the better explanation [re The Razor] and aligned with the latest information.
The mathematics prove that your Christian understanding of reality is as faulty as the materialists understanding of reality.
Theism up to this point has had no choice but to accept materialism as base-reality and attempt to superimpose the idea of Creation/Creator into that mix.
Theism does not have to proceed in that manner now that the math supports our universe is not base reality.
I can accept that folk may well have thought about reality in materialistic terms, but Jesus didn’t speak of reality in the same way. According to his own words, we should be able to accept that he knew that the material universe was not base reality - his oft enough commentary on the realm of YHVH, confirms this to be the case.
Or we absolutely can say that they do teach that we exist in a reality which is not base-reality and that the accounts by those telling the stories, would have been oblivious to that but we - today - should be able to see such stories in a different light, since we have access to knowledge that they did not.
Agreed?[/quote]
GM: Brother
Concision
The Right Tool For The Job
Incorporate
The Life Essence
Coordinate Forgiveness
Original
Epiphany [a moment of sudden and great revelation or realization.]
The Dolphins And Whales
Getting unstuck
According https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjsAZUigJ1o [Woman Crosses Over and Gets Told Our Role on Earth (Near Death Experience)] [RTS=9:00]
William: Forgiveness - “Incorporate The Life Essence, Coordinate Forgiveness”
Superposition - Being aware of Human Control Dramas = 512
GM: A very useful fiction
Two seemingly contradictory things working as one overall organized thing.
Communication With The Deeper Levels of Self
The Shadow
Develop a basic, fact-based view first and then ask the question.
Radiate Honesty
“Can a transistor with its simple function relating input to output be conscious? how about two? or hundred?”
To Warm Them up to The Truth
Conducive to wellbeing
♬With a mystical smile I float down the isle Forgetting the time when I was lost♬
Bandages of The Beast
Training the mind
It Requires Corrective Action
The Navigator Can Read Maps.
Selfless Attitude
“Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood” Resistance to that realization isn’t helpful re aligning with it.
Placebo Effect
Imagining potatoes screaming as you peel them…
[quote][re shuffled]
Planned obsolescence
Delightful Anticipation
Sovereignty
The Mother and The Father
Inner Strength
The problem of evil
Start where you are
To become conscious of the contents that press outward from the unconscious
Nurture
The sound of a Ghost
Enlightenment
Core emotion
The Body of God
Elemental Powers
Blunt the edge off that particular blade…
Way Back When…
Stone Age
Once Upon a Time
Memorandum of Understanding
Chamber Of Self
Open your chakras
Fling That Veil Aside
Invisible Bridge
Cyborg Anthropology
Multiverse
This
Children of The Light
That is the truth.
Final Destination
Being Born
Aye…A name I call myself.
Manifest Destiny
Transformation
Source Reality
Sister Saturn
Preamble
A belly full of laughs.
All Because I Had To Ask[/quote]
Behind The Veil You Are All Loveable…
DATE [011122] [The Fathers ‘House - Mansions’][282]
[quote][quote]So are you thinking that the display was not to have people believe that he went to another/alternative Realm, but rather, to feed into/utilize popular belief in Heaven being an actual realm where YHVH and the Host reside, even that this was not the actual case?
Why do you think Jesus used such device. Surely he would have known the impact that this would have on those who witnessed the act, and those who subsequently learned of the event?
Why would he not just simply disappear from their midst if indeed Heaven isn’t an actual realm, as you believe? Why the theatrics?[/quote]
[/quote]
[Tickety Boo Productive = 258]
[258]
The design of the universe
Tickety Boo Productive
The one God with many names
Events connected by meaning
Intelligence with Wisdom
RSP = SCLx12 “The idea would be for one to get knowledgeable with new information being presented and, in doing so, drop old concepts for new ones.” + P&P 12x either side
TIME [08:50][Communication is key]
GM: Earth
Divine feminine
The “Problem of evil” is like the “Problem of unicorns”
Nonviolent communication
Histrionic [excessively theatrical or dramatic in character or style. melodramatic behaviour designed to attract attention. an actor.]
“Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood”
Translucency [permitting light to pass through but diffusing it so that persons, objects, etc., on the opposite side are not clearly visible] https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1089361#p1089361
[Most Brights believe that public policies should be based on science (a body of knowledge obtained and tested by use of the scientific method). Brights are likely to oppose the practice of basing public policies on supernatural doctrines. Brights may therefore be described as secularists.]
Be Led
Algorithms are not perfect Connections
Guarantee
Apatheism [someone who is not interested in accepting or rejecting any claims that gods exist or do not exist. ]
Walking the walk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S08mafHnPGs [Is the EARTH CONSCIOUS and ALIVE?] [RTS=13:09]
[Planting seed and the correct amount of variables necessary to the success of it growing]
[09:07]
[09:43] GM: Re Abusive Expression Of All Types.
Enjoy Progress
Incongruous [not in harmony or keeping with the surroundings or other aspects of something.]
A type of ‘leg-up’ but no more or less than that
Leg Hold Traps
Afraid of The Unknown.
Spiritual bypassing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex0WYitiS7M [The First Aliens | A Brief History of Aliens in Science Fiction] [RTS=14:27]
[quote]Service of the state above all else - including families - a society valuing strength above most things and resenting the weak - a society operating on a strict hierarchy.
Inserting certain characteristics and viewpoint into alien species is often a way in which writers are able to make criticisms about certain ideologies and belief systems… [/quote] GM:https://wizardforums.com/threads/william-message-generation.647/post-16045
GM: A measured step
The essence of the world can express both consciousness and unconsciousness.
Childlike
The idea would be for one to get knowledgeable with new information being presented and, in doing so, drop old concepts for new ones.
Because we are effectively trapped in our individuate states, yet nature Herself makes it that we cannot survive independently of each other, this apparent contradiction feeds those fires of discontentment.
William
Meat For The Table
Walk The Talk In Love https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1089586#p1089586
For me, the scope of the universe and the utter hostility of most of it for life as we know it, plus the curious impulse of humans to want to create life in their own image [transhumanism/AI stuff like that] presents a challenging purposeful intent to make something spectacularly useless into something functional/purposeful.
[quote]More so if this is the only planet in that vast expanse where life as we know it has managed to thrive.
I don’t think that it is, but I am surprised that it doesn’t give creationists pause for thought.[/quote]
It is plausible enough that we are experiencing this spectacularly useless universe as a simulation - as a long-running - many levelled game in which we - playing within it - attempt to make something useful out of something useless as we play our part.
There may be other ‘life as we know it’ playing the game as well, and only those players who get to bring their world consciousness to that point, win the right to play on and perhaps eventually discover those other worlds.[/quote]
GM: Liminalist [In anthropology, liminality (from the Latin word līmen, meaning “a threshold”) is the quality of ambiguity or disorientation that occurs in the middle stage of a rite of passage, when participants no longer hold their pre-ritual status but have not yet begun the transition to the status they will hold when the rite is complete]
Precipitate [cause (an event or situation, typically one that is undesirable) to happen suddenly, unexpectedly, or prematurely.] https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1069825#p1069825
[quote]William: I think there is reason [given and not given] to believe there is a case for “superior understanding”.
Whether the reason is reasonable, is really the question to ask - but how to garner an answer?
I do so - through the use of this message generating system. I am quiet convinced that the system offers a superior understanding through superior messages being generated.
One cannot make this stuff up.[/quote]
Teaching Music
William: Yes - I think that the new approach between Tanager and myself with inclusion of an ongoing list showing where we have come to an agreement, helps the communication process better than the old approach that I hade been using which used too much information at one time and thus, overwhelmed and confused more than it did, enlighten…
[quote]We have both agreed that:
1: We exist within a creation.
2: Simulation Theory is a valid way to interpret the Biblical stories.
3: YVHV placed humans into this universe to grow personalities.
4: The purpose of YVHV growing human personalities is so that these would potentially gain experience of the truth of the reason for their environment and their temporary experience within it.
5: It is an advantage to all grown personalities to be consciously and consistently connected with YVHV and thus understand and support YVHVs initiatives.
6: Human personalities - upon the death of their body-sets - move on to other experiences.
7: Anything which changes is not the same thing as it once was.
8: YHVH is not a simulation.[/quote]
Talk to The Razor
Stagnant
Doubt
Through the building up of the collected data to the point where it can be examined…is The Subject which is being taught, being said to be true or false…
Internal Triggering
William: In our ongoing discussion, Tanager recently wrote;
[quote]Tanager: 1) How do we determine truth?
You questioned my skepticism as being non-theistic. I completely disagree. To me faith is putting one’s trust in what one has good reason to do so. That is the Biblical idea of faith. We are called to test everything (1 Thessalonians 5:21, 2 Timothy 4, 1 John 4).
Now, you don’t seem to advocate for completely blind faith, but you do offer personal experience as a reason to believe X is true. I agree, unless there is a defeater of that belief that comes out in testing the ideas out.
One example I gave was that supposed personal experiences of Jesus that contradict His historical teachings, should not be accepted as true. I think Jesus, as part of the triune God, would remain consistent in His teachings. God has no reason to change His character or understanding for God is all-knowing and all-loving.
I think this is different from whether Jesus influences people throughout the two thousand years since, however. I think He influences us from a constant, unchanging self. What changes is our understanding of things, not what He teaches.
[/quote]
William: And my reply to that;
[quote]I covered that when I wrote:
To expand on this understanding, What Jesus taught in no way contradicts the idea that we exist within a simulated reality.
As with YHVH, being the same/unchanging hasn’t anything to do with how the authors of biblical script ‘saw’ YHVH and thus expressed their seeing in story form. Those stories are not “what YHVH teaches” but are expressions of inspiration by the authors who believed they were being taught by YHVH and their attempts to dress that in a language which could be understood by folk of their particular epoch.
That is why I wrote;
You reply;
I have been saying the same thing. So we should eventually be able to add that to our list of things we agree with.[/quote]
As a result, we have added to the list of agreement;
although in thinking more on this now, we might also have to add something along the lines of;
“It is humans growing toward the knowledge of the unchangeable, who are required to change as truth is being established”
Re “The list of agreement” = 202
[202]
Embrace the discomfort
The list of agreement
Prevailing Influence
Speculation at best
Been through the mill
Start From Scratch
This is really COOL!
The Vector Symbol
The practice of lojong
I Spy With My Eye
Welcome peer review.
GM: Word - String Values
Central Intelligence Agency
Superior Credibility
Querulous [complaining in a rather petulant or whining manner. ]
Galactic Encompassment
The idea would be for one to get knowledgeable with new information being presented and, in doing so, drop old concepts for new ones.
The beauty of imperfection
Have A Look At This And See What You Come Up With
The Knowledge Of
The fact that code exists helps immensely in our ability to understand that intelligence is categorically involved in this existence.
William: The Knowledge Of The fact that code exists helps immensely in our ability to understand that intelligence is categorically involved in this existence. = 1479
God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;” = 1479
GM: The practice of Lojong [a contemplative practice in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition which makes use of various lists of aphorisms or slogans which are used for contemplative practice. The practice involves refining and purifying one’s motivations and attitudes.]
GM: The Vector Symbol [a straight line between two specified points.]
Statements of opinion
Perspective
What Shall We Call It?
Memorandum of Understanding
Intransigence [refusal to change one’s views or to agree about something.]
William: Yet - as Lou describes, by my not entering into any dramatics and simply allowing the GMs to speak for themselves, Lou changed opinion…
GM: “Shut up you blithering fools! Can’t you see you’re dealing with a madman?”
Clown Boat
Invent
Infinite Quantum Zen
GM: [quote]William: As I said, it is not so much how each individual interprets any particular GM - either coming from me or you or anyone else - Rather it is the fact that a message is generated.[/quote] GM: [quote]William: Here Am I Is Where I Ought Examining My Conscious Thought[/quote] GM: Humility
Physics Breakthrough as AI Successfully Controls Plasma in Nuclear Fusion Experiment {SOURCE}
The Whole
Who wouldn’t want that, if it were there on offer?
Queen Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Windsor
Move
The idea would be for one to get knowledgeable with new information being presented and, in doing so, drop old concepts for new ones. https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1085792#p1085792
William: FTL; Re: Are Religious Beliefs Delusional?
I never said or meant to imply you were being misleading, misled perhaps but not misleading. I said the term “ghost” is misleading because it is a conflation. (Granted, I did accuse you of being delusional, and I was rightly pulled up for that by the moderator).
Even a cursory bit of research will quickly show that God and ghost are different, I’m not going to waste my time copying and pasting all of these definitions, you can see for yourself that they are not the same, they mean different things.
[/quote]
[quote]William: I use the same data as the scientists produce. As I have explained already, there is no apparent reason as to why the object which exploded, has to be regarded as the only thing that existed, since that constitutes magical thinking [MT].
The obvious alternative to MT is that what is being observed as having a beginning and predicted to eventually end, must therefore be manifesting on a backdrop/stage/fabric/matrix of an eternal nature - physical in essence - yet also inert in its undisturbed state.[/quote]
GM: “But you will know the more you get in touch with your transcendental mind (and therefore truth) that there is no such thing as a victim. The negative benefits you more than anything else in your evolution and the evolution of all that is.”
Be kind to yourself … Name The Gods as non-separate Entities
Time Does Not Exist Within an Eternal Reality.
♬ Life is my predestiny - Providence is God to me♬
The nature of understanding
Solace [comfort or consolation in a time of distress or sadness.]
Truthful definitions
Imperishable [enduring forever.]
Ouija
“What separates privilege from entitlement is gratitude.”
Self-confidence Core
Stop. Listen. Observe.
Betterment
Nature of Angels
The Crabwood Cropcircle
Get The Ball Rolling
Discarnate [not having a physical body.]
The Bidden Zone
The Data of Demystification
Tributary Zones
The idea would be for one to get knowledgeable with new information being presented and, in doing so, drop old concepts for new ones.
Not by flinging woo at it.
Runny nose jelly legs
Pulse
Illuminating https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1088494#p1088494
William: FTL; re My own experience and what I learned from it.
[quote]I have mentioned in passing way back when, that I followed through on this particular aspect of scripture when going through my Christian phase.
I sold all my possessions.
I left my wife and child behind.
I carried no money (although occasionally I was given money or found it and it had its uses.)
I carried no extra clothing except an extra pair of socks, and an old coat for when it rained (which it frequently does in my country.)
I also carried a pen, some colored pencils a few envelops and stamps so I could write of my progress and send to my wife.
Also a toothbrush.
I spent weeks ‘on the road’ in some kind of pilgrimage testing my faith and I would say that - had I not done so I would have abandoned Christianity and GOD as well.
As it turned out, I have since abandoned Christianity but certainly not GOD or for that matter Yeshua.
The stories that I have regarding that experience - that phase of my life - are many and very interesting. Of course they are subjective so are not subject to scientific review although there is nothing to stop scientists from doing the same and seeing what results are to be found, other than their focus is elsewhere and most would likely consider such a thing a kind of madness anyway.
Indeed, what I am sharing is just hearsay anyway. Only those who were close to me at the time could verify that I did do what I say I did, and even then they cannot know the details - how I survived the experience and what things I experienced during that time-period of my life - because yes - once I understood how it worked, I eventually went back into the ‘system’ but that didn’t mean I didn’t do the same things, again, and again, and again over a period of a few years.
In a nut shell this is where I learned first hand how serendipity worked, and how GOD can indeed provide, so in that I can testify that Yeshua was correct and something else I learned was that GOD provided through circumstance but ALWAYS this involved humans beings helping me along the way.
Those human beings of course, were all connected to the system, and in that I was very aware that although I was temporarily ‘off the grid’ I was still indirectly relying upon it. There was no ‘mana from the sky’ and nor was I given the ability to rub my hands together and produce bread.
Indeed, I can testify that for the most part, it was almost always non-Christians who helped me and on the odd occasion where I did ‘seek out the believers’ to ask for their help, they had a very hard time giving me that help and felt as if I was intruding and encroaching and putting pressure on them simply by doing what I was doing and being in a situation where I had to ask.
Generally though, I often didn’t have to ask as - like I said - serendipity arranged it that way. People would offer.
Anyway, I can at least say that it works. It isn’t easy and it certainly tests you to the limits but the reward as it were is indelible. Anyone willing to go through such a thing will never have reason to doubt again, and can only move forward ‘in the spirit’ as it were, no regrets.[/quote]
GM: Who Knows What That Is Worth?
Harmless
Perpetually
Like a Job Well Done
Fecund [producing or capable of producing an abundance of offspring of new ideas or new growth; highly fertile]
Immortal
I’m okay with that https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1085464#p1085464
William: FTL; Re: If you were Satan…
[quote]All this speculation about Satan thwarting Father YHWH assumes that Satan is more intelligent than Father YHWH.
Those whom assume such are basically showing the allegiance of their will to worship Satan’s intelligence.
Perhaps that is the Mark of The Beast.
[Loyalty or commitment to a superior or to a group or cause.]
[An attitude of the individuals mind which is altogether shared by millions of like-minded $itizens.]
To think that Satan can outsmart the Elder - The Father YHWH - is a fallacy in relation to biblical narrative.
That is to say,
IF one has to go outside of biblical narrative whilst arguing against biblical narrative
THEN one is ignoring biblical narrative on the one hand whilst on the other holding ones interpretation of it up as the interpretation to assume.
Such muddies the waters for all except those who have already noticed what is beneath the surface…[/quote]
GM: Putting yourself back together again
Moon
Becoming whole Sober journey into self-realization
The Sub Hierarchy
In the Soil of Logic, The Seeds of Love Respond
Radiant
The idea would be for one to get knowledgeable with new information being presented and, in doing so, drop old concepts for new ones.
A grateful heart Open your chakras
Major Arcana
William: RS - Major Tarot doc = “Wheel of Fortune”
[quote]Wheel Of Fortune
WHEEL OF FORTUNE DESCRIPTION
The Wheel of Fortune card shows a giant wheel, with three figures on the outer edges. Four Hebrew letters – YHVH (Yod Heh Vau Heh), the unpronounceable name of God – are inscribed on the wheel’s face. There are also the letters TORA, thought to be a version of the word Torah, meaning ‘law’, or TAROT, or even ROTA (Latin for ‘wheel’). The middle wheel has the alchemical symbols for mercury, sulphur, water and salt – the building blocks of life and the four elements – and represents formative power.
On the outer circle is a snake, the Egyptian god Typhon (the god of evil), descending on the left side. The snake also represents the life force plunging into the material world. On the right side rises the Anubis, the Egyptian God of the dead who welcomes souls to the underworld. And on top of the wheel sits the Sphinx, representing knowledge and strength.
In the corners of the Wheel of Fortune card are four winged creatures, each associated with the four fixed signs of the Zodiac: the angel is Aquarius, the eagle is Scorpio, the lion is Leo, and the bull is Taurus. Their wings signify stability amidst movement and change, and each holds the Torah, representing wisdom.{SOURCE}[/quote] GM: Crazy
"Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all” Grand Experiment
The Corporate Elite
Deciding On the Best Course of Action
Callum’s Eighth Point
William:
[quote]Manu Iti: Callum’s Eighth Point appears to indicate that he is saying that if The Tanager does not want Callum to access my thoughts through Callum reading The Book of Musing On The Mother II, then “That’s Okay”.
I wouldn’t argue with that reasoning as it is within the rules of The Role-Play.
I have provided Callum with enough devices for him to help himself and learn through. I cannot decide for him whether he uses those or is happy not to, if The Tanager does not want him to.{SOURCE}[/quote]
William: Re "Getting knowledgeable with new information, clearly the 8th point is resisting doing so - in reading the post linked, I also note this;
[quote]Callum protests that the Idea of the Physical Universe being a Simulated Reality is no better than any other explanation, such as the Christian worldview claims or other creationist worldviews.
However, he does not say why those other world views should be considered as being ideas which do not support the idea of the Physical Universe being a Simulated Reality.
So, rather than go down that path with him, I will hold off until whenever he might decide to explain what he means. [/quote]
William: This is still something, three years on - that Tanager argues while he remains unclear as to what the “Christian worldview” is and why it is not supportive of Simulation Theory.
[quote]William: The key message you generated there, “appear to all of our tests”, is no random accident. .
That it might ‘appear’ this way has everything to do with the device [filters] through which the assessment is being placed through. The interpretation of that which is being observed through experience.[/quote][/quote]
[quote]William: Our movements can illuminate the path toward that vision. A Bit Of Cat And Mouse Control = 876
Transparent Enlightenment Relationship True Colors On all fronts No axe to grind… = 876[/quote]
GM: Reborn
Stubborn
Please process this word using your Name2Nunumber list.
On The Other Hand…
Self-esteem
Self-love
William: Self-esteem…On The Other Hand… Self-love = 360
The Entity I Am - The Entity You Are = 360
GM: The Factor of Integrity and Alignment
Is life on earth being lived as it should be?
Odd
The wisdom of insecurity
Aligning With WingMakers
Look from a different angle
The idea would be for one to get knowledgeable with new information being presented and, in doing so, drop old concepts for new ones.
“Zero” does not actually represent “nothing” because “nothing” does not exist and so cannot be represented.
Ooky Spooky
Too
The Deeper Reality
Play
Noticeable within The Realms of Democracy
Spiritual path
Sound
Mystery https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1091764#p1091764
GM: Breaking bad habits
Deciding On The Best Course Of Action
The Path
Madventures
Honest attempts at scrubbing up
Reflect
All Information Is Channelled
Toward a Science of Consciousness
Before The Beginning
Long Story Short https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1081586#p1081586
[quote]Agnosticism accepts the validity of the possibility the environment we exist within is indeed a created one {a creation}, implying therefore, that there is a creator.
The position of Agnosticism also requires questions are asked, pertaining to the identity of supposed creator[/quote] GM: Burden of Proof - The scientific way to examine verifiable evidence Presumed outcome
Conceivable
Be transparent
The idea would be for one to get knowledgeable with new information being presented and, in doing so, drop old concepts for new ones.
Two sides of the same coin Interpretation Narrow Zero In On It
The Masks and the Costumes
Fear of the Unknown
Heart chakra
“You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose”
Items of Interest
Story
Simulating large scale structure
Light
Confusion In The Air
The United Nations
Fear-Based Thinking
Sister Saturn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6XF71YswCs [Satan, The Jews, and The Afterlife] [RTS=34:36] www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6XF71YswCs
[quote]It is not as if I am asking you to consider joining a religion. I am asking you to seriously consider the possibility that we exist in a creation and it is a result of a creative mind.
I am trying to encourage you to see the logic in the middle-ground position which wisely understands that there is not enough information to establish any belief either way but certainly enough information to show the unreasonableness of those less-superior positions.[/quote]
Intractable [hard to control or deal with.]
The idea would be for one to get knowledgeable with new information being presented and, in doing so, drop old concepts for new ones.
Flat
Lucid
“Diogenes raises his lantern looking for an honest man, but his arm has grown weary, shaking as the pale light flickers.”
Dogs of the sea https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaXpDsjVumk [YAHWEH | Shocking Truth Behind The Original Bible Story! Episode 3] [RTS=37:13] www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaXpDsjVumk
The idea of benevolence comes after the idea of evil.
The Sioux Elder [The elder: Not all older or elderly people are considered elders. An elder is a person that has accumulated a great deal of wisdom and knowledge throughout his or her lifetime, especially in the tradition and customs of the group.]
Invention isn’t actually what is going on though. Realization is what is occurring.
Inspection
Avoid Blowing Things Out of Proportion
Attempting to overlay/superimpose one’s belief in the truth of stories as being more truthful than the main overall story itself, is possibly an act of immorality, if indeed - upon further evidence - one continues to attempt to have the superimposed thing used to conceal the real.
[quote]Re: The problem of evil
[Replying to Miles in post #2]
Thanks for the heads up - I edited OP by adding source link.
This is what the OPQ is asking. Is the statement “Evil exists” one of fact or conjecture?
iow - is “evil” an objective reality or a subjective conjecture?
Biblical stories of the God viewing human behavior as being [“evil”?] would support that such behavior can be observed objectively and thus “5. Evil exists.” would be true.
But as we all know, ‘evil’ is spawned through moralistic principles which folk have difficulty in agreeing to when moralism is thought of as opinion-based…
Which is to say what, re those who do not claim such? That those ones believe evil does not exist? Something else?
Re that, what of the question of GOD? Does removing characterizations re GOD, remove the possibility that GOD exists?[/quote]
GM:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNYK7rnXi9g [World’s smartest person wrote this one mysterious book] www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNYK7rnXi9g
Alike as two peas in a pod
Golden nugget
Soul Groups A Pragmatic Realization Precipitated In Ones Mind
Hyper Complex
From The Source - Said Another Way
“Put the Teachings Into Practice”
[quote]Re: ADAM WAS NOT DECIEVED - THE SPIRITUAL REASON WHY
[quote]On the assumption that we exist within a creation, then I would argue that a Creator-GOD did intend for us to experience as real, this Created Universe.
If the mortal experience is interpreted by any experiencing it to be a trial and a test of some sort, this may not signify any truth in the interpretation as the individuals response to the experience may be a mis-interpretation of what is going on.
What I could agree to is that this would have been one of the known responses of the Creator-God if that entity did indeed posses the attributes you stipulate with your question.
Mortality appears to be part of that plan. Experiencing what it is like to die. [Death].
I note the above, because people are not only born, and then experience this universe through that process [live], and respond to the experience [living] in whatever fashion they chose to respond, but also experience dying and death - something which signifies the end of the experience for the individual who dies.
Born. Live the experience. Die.
Therefore;
I can accept that morality was part of that creator-gods plan[/quote][/quote]
[quote]Re: How can we trust the Bible if it’s not inerrant?
GM: Dualic Energies
The Spirit of The Earth
Thinking Allowed
The Human Form as a Means to an End
Stop. Listen. Observe.
Sometimes the simplest explanations are the best…
Efficacious [successful in producing a desired or intended result; effective.]
Perpetual Creative Conscious Intelligence https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GldRtyEqPt8 [Reefer Madness: The Science of Marijuana with Neil deGrasse Tyson and Dr. Staci Gruber] [RTS=10:55] www.youtube.com/watch?v=GldRtyEqPt8
[quote]Exactly - except that being omniscient would be the very reason WHY the creation of the Physical Universe was engineered - as a means to escape the omniscient condition.
And observing said Physical Universe, we can understand that it would be a great thing for that exact purpose.
A physical manifestation of a mental projection…the same would apply to the “many eternal universe theory” which J. Richard Gott explains…only with variety…and timelessness [since these are eternal - go on forever even that they all have beginnings…which would be a better way to do it if one would never have to suffer from omniscience again…always having something new to learn…[/quote][/quote] GM:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d0URbems8M [The Truth Illusion | Al Jazeera Investigations] [RTS=32:18] www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d0URbems8M
[quote]The term “Conspiracy Theory” is an interesting term because it was a term that was originally popularized by the CIA in order to discredit people who were saying that the Warren Commission, which was the commission that had investigated my uncles assassination, were crazy and that they shouldn’t be paid attention to.
Robert F. Kennedy Jnr [/quote] GM: Event String Unfolding
ET and the notion of GODs
The idea would be for one to get knowledgeable with new information being presented and, in doing so, drop old concepts for new ones.
What the seed holds
First Light
Like a doting parent
How to effectively deal with anger…not by ignoring it, but through understanding it and developing means by which it - as an externalized emotional-based energy - can be transformed into something more appropriate to the situation we find ourselves lost within.
Arms Crossed The Solar System
The Generated Messages https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1083860#p1083860
[quote][Replying to Diogenes in post #15]
[quote]I gave an example of what obviously appears to be a delusional belief, by every definition, but for the ‘religion’ exception:
Doesn’t the belief that Muhammad rode a winged horse to Jerusalem, through seven heavens, hell, and paradise, into the presence of God, and back to Earth, appear delusional to anyone not Muslim?
To which I receive the question from William,[/quote]
[quote]I am momentarily speechless. Who, besides maybe a Muslim, could possibly consider a man riding a mythical winged animal up to ‘heaven,’ then to six more ‘heavens,’ then to Hell, and back to Paradise, and finally to Earth anything but a delusional belief, but for the ‘religion’ exemption? If the Islamic claim does not appear absurd on its face, no amount of “man 'splaining” will be sufficient.
It’s even more silly than fiery chariots going to heaven, talking snakes and Noah’s mythical boat. [/quote]
Why would you think that the one is ‘more silly’ than the others?
Also;
Re: Are Religious Beliefs Delusional?
The question appears to be a loaded one as it steers toward one of two conclusions.
1: Yes, religious beliefs are delusional [with supporting evidence]
2: No, religious beliefs are not delusional. [also with supporting evidence]
The better question has to be: Q: Are All Religious Beliefs Delusional?
and with that, one can analyze the data without the leading bias interfering with the results…
re your second question as to why religious mythology is an exception to the rule, the answer probably also comes from a position of bias as those who invent and agree to such rules might be heavily influenced by the mythological imagery to the extent where they lack understanding that the mythological imagery is simply a well intended interpretation of experiences had, which are not easily explainable to others, using whatever communication techniques available at the time of explanation.
For example, if a space-faring advanced specie were to display to an individual human mind from the stone-age period, a fully immersive holographic experience of compacted imagery showing how the universe began, and subsequently unfolded, the individual experiencing this would not be able to distinguish the holographic display from the normal reality he/she usually experiences. One would appear as real to the individual, as the other.
Further to that, any interpretation of the experience in the telling of it to his/her stone aged fellows, can only be attempted through use of analogy and those peoples understanding of form and function as it pertains to them - from their perspective in the dominant reality experience in said universe.
This is what religious mythology consists of, and as such, it is best not to take these as literal imagery but to understand these as approximations and utterances which are unable to describe
with any type of accuracy, using what device is available for them to convey experience.
When understood in this way, any alternate experience of such nature [not just religious-based ones] is limited [to being accurately explained] by the current devices used to convey explanations of experience.
Thus the OPQ - while focused upon the religious mythologies of individual experiences, can be asked of every alternate experience ever reported.
The answer to the OPQ would therefore, have to be “we currently do not have enough information to make a call on it”.
Any literal beliefs in mythological imagery could be considered delusional.
For example, the teller of the experience might say something like “the best I can describe the manner in which I moved through layers of my experience was that it was similar to riding a horse or chariot, but there was no actual horse or chariot”.
The listeners might conveniently forget that part of the tellers story, in subsequent retellings of it.
Contrary to that, the teller of the story might not explain that he/she is using analogy and simply declare “the manner in which I moved through layers of my experience was that I rode chariot” in which case it would not be a matter of delusion but rather a matter of veering away from the truth through deliberately misinforming the listeners through omittance.[/quote] GM: Burgeoning
“Pixie Farts create Pixel parts”
Discipline
Leave a Trail
Sort It Out
William: It seems logical in the context - when we die - , we enter into a lucidity within a state which we touch upon during our sleep - what we refer to as “dreaming” and infer that dreams “are not real” - without the realization that dreams are alternate experiences which we have and thus, are real.
I suspect that the reason we think of dream experiences as not being real, is because we do not recollect them in the same way as we do, the lucid moments of our wakened state in this reality we call ‘physical’. The memory of our dream quickly fades and is soon forgotten and allocated as simply ‘what the brain does’ which has no bearing on the reality of our physical experiences.
In reality, dreams are a preparation, and the practice of lucid dreaming helps the individual prepare for the next phase experience and handle it better than one could if one were not prepared.
William: Indeed - it is significantly about preparation - being prepared. Someone who thinks that they are only their body, and when their body dies, they die - such belief allows no room for preparation and dreams are nothing more than illusions…and to think that dreams are more than simply illusions, is delusional…
William: Well - as in accepting that it is what it is and that the physical universe is mostly to do with growing individual personalities which are helpful/useful in the next phase…
[quote]1) God causes some, and not others, to become inexorably drawn to Him.
2) God changes hearts
The take-away, yet again… He apparently does this for some. Why not just do this for all?[/quote]
[quote]Is there evidence that it is done for some?
If so, then, that it is not done for all should be also be evident so one would have to look into that evidence.
The argument usually has to do with an individual having free will.
IF:
Free Will is the ability to tell ones brain what to think
THEN:
One has a possible answer as to why it is only done for some and not all.[/quote][/quote]
William: Indeed. YHVH grows personalities and not all personalities are drawn to YHVH, but this does not signify that YHVH has no use for such…
GM: The idea would be for one to get knowledgeable with new information being presented and, in doing so, drop old concepts for new ones.
Tell Your Story
Breathe In Breathe Out
Eternal Watcher
Extend Beyond The Borders of Institution
What relationship is Satan to YHVH?
Elysian [paradise reserved for the heroes immortalized by the gods.]
Pseudepigraphical [are falsely attributed works, texts whose claimed author is not the true author, or a work whose real author attributed it to a figure of the past.]
It Requires Corrective Action
“If we can remove the stigma of our situation by not judging it either ‘good’ or ‘evil’ perhaps we can learn to be happy with being human”
Around The Next Corner
Guru https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1097125#p1097125
William: FTL; Re: How can we trust the Bible if it’s not inerrant?
[quote]
[quote][quote]Your being a programmer creating simulations within the larger simulation, makes no difference to the idea that we exist within a simulated reality experience.
What has you believing otherwise, simply because you are “a programmer by day and by night”?
Do you believe that you skills are on par with YHVH? That since you could not create the vast coding in the order of your choice, in a mere six days, that this gives you confidence The Elohim did not achieve this?[/quote][/quote]
[quote]The simulation is designed in a manner that limits those experiencing it as a reality, making it difficult to peer through the veil and observe the realm of YHVH from outside of it…
Yet, clearly the mathematics is there to discover and in that, [and not that alone] YHVH wants us to know that we exist within a created thing.
Your argument is obviously designed for those who are materialists, to say “Look! it is evident that we exist within a creation, therefore there must exist a creator!” and we can agree to that much.
However, it is very curious to me that you resist the idea that the creation is a simulated reality. Simulation Theory can explain every religious story ever told, including all the biblical stories.
Furthermore, we are informed by physicists that spacetime, as a fundamental reality, is doomed.
This should be exciting evidence to all theists who enjoy their battles with materialists who deny that we exist within a created thing, yet clearly the idea that the created thing is a simulation finds resistance in those theists…and my question is “why is this the case?”
What about the biblical content and context, has you resisting this idea, otseng?[/quote][/quote]
Perhaps Free Will, is the ability to tell ones brain what to think
091122 [The great grey neutral zone]
SCLx11 + select last LE per shuffle
[Preamble]
The Physical Universe - Duty Calls Children Help Each Other REAL Friendship - The Sensation Is Thrilling…And Freeing - “William, as ever, turning ideas on their heads.” - God2 - Merging with the data - The Unknown Knowable - Working With What Is Available - Perhaps we can deconstruct some of these pernicious views. - The data of Nature. - Opening the Heart
AP= The Completion Process Borne Upon Judgments Platform = 584
On the off-chance a pragmatic realization precipitated in one’s mind = 584
RSP= “Perhaps Free Will, is the ability to tell one’s brain what to think”+11 P&P
11:39 [Interesting data]
GM: Dig deep
It Is Only Occult If It Is Hidden
Aion [‘life’ (often in the sense of ‘vital force’), ]
Like playing Rush
The only thing the Holy Ghost is unable to forgive, is that which individuals are unable to forgive of themselves
Yes We Can
Okay - facts are great.
Set the board up or put the game aside…
Confusing atheism with science…that is unhelpful to anyone. https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1071422#p1071422
William: FTL; Re: JW’s claim of Kingdom of God establish in 1914?
[quote]
That’s what I was saying, when I wrote;
However, I do not have one name for my God. I have many names [including YHVH] for The Cosmic Mind of Creation.
[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #118]
Those with no knowledge of scripture today cannot obey the first commandment.
[quote]That is not support for the bolded statement above.
Indeed, ‘You must love The Creator with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole strength and with your whole mind’ is something folk can do, even if they have no access to any religious script.
The other biblical quotes bear witness to how individuals related to their idea of God - in love…indeed, the bible is mostly a books of stories to do with this inter-personal relationship.
And to add - many of those individuals did not even have access to what you are saying is ‘Scripture’ - so it would not be errant of me to point out that there is no concrete evidence to support the belief that knowledge of scripture is a commandment, even implicatively.
Certainly one can find inspiration for wanting to connect and commune, but this is simply not limited to the bible - thus quite obviously there is no such commandment that scripture be known, in order for one to connect and commune with The Creator Mind [Ghost] - therefore the knowledge must be sourced elsewhere, and primarily it must be sourced within the relationship itself - not to the stories of others [as inspiring as these might be] but to ones own story in relation with others.
[/quote][/quote] GM: A Game Of Chess
Perhaps Free Will, is the ability to tell one’s brain what to think
“The Alien Disc crop circle Supernatural”
Consensus Realities
Discernment
Healing
The beauty of imperfection
Still
Do A=1
Clear
Shining light
William: Clear shining light = 175
[175]
You feel love again
Love yourself
Always Vigilant
Ethical Progress
The Electroweak Era
Archangel Metatron
Asking Politely
Embracing the shadow
Dancing past The Dark
Clear shining light
Consciousness
GM: Pollution
Blue Pill
We were not conscious of being a human for a time, but this does not mean that consciousness wasn’t there.
Integrating Integrity
Intelligent
William: Integrating Integrity Intelligent = 378
The fundamental nature of information
Personal Participation With The One
All The World Are Under the watchful eye
Noticeable within The Realms of Democracy
Conformal Cyclic Cosmology Meaningful
Cathedrals crumbled as wars were fought…
Integrating Integrity Intelligent
William: FTL; Re: Artificial life: can it be created?
[quote]Perhaps it serves as a placeholder to remain undecided and to think biblical events as metaphor, but the OP is asking whether Simulation Theory is valid re those stories, and also shows that it could validate non-biblical stories as well, because we are essentially examining the stories in that light.
Perhaps the difficult one can have with ST is in thinking that somehow things experienced - whether heavenly of earthly are therefore “NOT REAL” but I think that this is an incorrect assumption.
Lets say a heavenly city does descend and therefore shows us that metaphor was an incorrect assumption/belief.
What options as to explanation could we draw from such an event?[/quote]
[quote]Is this because your beliefs are simply a set of opinions and thus hold no authority? Why have beliefs then?
[/quote][quote]Assuming we are physical beings. We may well actually be non-physical beings who are experiencing a physical simulation. The “glorified environment” may be another way of saying our reality experience has been changed, along with our understanding of who we are.[/quote]
[quote]What ‘good reasons’ are these? You have not said. You have been asked. For example, I asked you what the difference is between experiencing something real and experiencing something simulated…
It is not easy for me to determine what your reasons are if you do not state them.[/quote]
[quote]Which is essentially a non-authoritative set of opinions of which you have undisclosed reasons for holding…
How can one evaluate your rejection of ST when you do not disclose the reasons for your beliefs/opinion sets?[/quote][/quote]
[quote]I won’t make any promises but will put in a word.
If - after doing so - the rains come, will you join me in celebrating answered requests, or just put it down to mindless coincidence?[/quote]…
GM: Love Your Life
The sun
The evidence points to the universe as not being an accident of mindless happenstance, but rather, the universe is a purposeful mindful event.
Insanity
William: Well sure - If we name the Universe “Sanity” we are “in” it.
GM: Self-validation
“Spread love everywhere you go. Let no one ever come to you without leaving happier.”
Aligning With WingMakers
Witty
Yes, if what we call “real” was actually “simulated,” we (those in the simulation) wouldn’t necessarily be able to tell the difference. But now we get to the question of burden…if one is wanting to argue ‘real’ versus ‘simulated’. If one is simply wanting to talk about created vs. “accident,” then we seem agreed there.
[/quote][/quote]
[quote]This of course is correct but I think it neglects the premise of Creator(s) - something which has to be assumed if we are to agree with the premise of US existing within a Creation/Simulation.
The wall between us in that, is we are wrestling with whether to call a created thing [this universe] a “Creation/Simulation” or separate those to signify different things “Creation” or “Simulation”.
Your argument is that the one need not be the other. Mine is that either way, the burden is on both of us to show that we exist within a creation.
[/quote]
[quote]Since that The Real is what is behind our - what we call “reality” - [what created this thing we inside of it call “reality”] … anything subsequent to that should be able to be referred to as a “Simulation” and that when the Bible speaks of “Creation” it does not differentiate that with “Simulation” and BOTH can be regarded as the same without burden being invoked.
Having said that, you might agree with me that there are things re The Universe which provide clues into grasping the gist of what may be the causation [behind] The Universe…What is the REAL behind the creation?
I will start by identifying the “Head-Set” which is more a case of being the “Body-Set”.
We know that this sensory circuitry is encased with flesh and held up with bone - completing the suit needed in order to experience The Universe as a “reality”.
We also know that the Body-Set does not experience The Universe as The Universe fundamentally IS, but that it interprets what information it can from the incoming data of experience channeled through the sensory device, which is the same thing as saying that the Body-Set creates a simulation of a Reality, as outgoing data, based on the interpretation of the incoming data.
I would argue also, that which is doing the interpretation may actually be more real than what is being interpreted as ‘real’, as in - that which is doing the interpretation is itself NOT completely simulated, experiencing the simulation through the Body-Set.
What I mean by the above, is that the simulation is so real that the one experiencing it is convinced that it is actually real.
That would be the same as if someone were using a headset to play a simulated reality game and became so immersed within the game that one forgot that one was using a headset within a game…and simply thought of oneself as being the object within the simulation and the accepting the simulation as Real.[/quote][/quote] GM: Taciturn [reserved or uncommunicative in speech; saying little.]
All Stars are born in pairs
William: All Stars are born in pairs = 261
The more data the more evidence = 261
[quote=William post_id=1092450 time=1663694605 user_id=8427]…Prove your assertion with scripture.[/quote][quote=William post_id=1092474 time=1663705628 user_id=8427]Anything following after the garden story which is contrary, cannot be considered true because it is based upon misunderstanding and presumption about YHWH. In the case of Paul - many thousands of years after…presumption upon presumption creating a misrepresentation as a consequence.
Therefore, until one can agree to follow the garden storyline as it was presented - without presuming things which were not mentioned - one will misrepresent.
Death was not caused by one man, but by YHWH, who created the human form of that one man [and all subsequent humans] to have a use by date - to eventually die.
The evidence for this being the case, is in the garden story. YHWH prevented Adam from having access to the fruit of the tree of life, therefore Adam would die because the body Adam had, was designed to die unless it consumed the fruit of the tree of life.[/quote]
Scripture specfic to the story under question…I would have been more specific but I figured you would go off on that tangent so allowed for that as it played nicely into my statement above.
[quote=William post_id=1092479 time=1663706618 user_id=8427].Again, you are missing the mark because the OPQ clearly states that if Adam and Eve had of obeyed YHWH they would not have needed to be punished.
It has been established that the forbidden fruit had no intrinsic properties which would give anyone eating it, the knowledge of good and evil.
The fruit was a prop used by YHWH to show the propensity of the human being toward disobedience through curiosity, desire, wiliness to push back the boundaries and willingness to succumb to temptation.
These in turn made an opportunity for humans to be more willing to multiply and to subdue the earth than simply sitting around in a pocket of paradise naming things and be provided for and not multiplying or going out and subduing the rest of the earth…
All in all, the OPQ has to be answered in the affirmative because - had the couple obeyed YHWH, the fruit - being a prop anyway - was actually harmless so YHWH then saying “You can eat of that fruit now” would be reasonable.[/quote]
Indeed you do and I am not debating otherwise.
It is why you disagree, which I am debating and your not wanting to answer my statement above with anything other than “I disagree.” isn’t much of an attempt by you to debate my assertions.
I think it is clear that I have made the correct call in answering “Yes” to the OPQ.
To add my observations over and above that;
The reason I created this thread topic is linked to another topic I created re “The problem of evil”
as I would like to know where exactly the problem first became a problem.
Did the problem derive in the Hebrew camp [culture] or did it start in the Christian camp[culture]?
The evidence supports that the problem arose from the Christian culture.
Further to that, your interaction with Miles in this thread shows that you - as a Christian in the Christian culture - are willing to argue that YHWH is able to ignore his attribute of omniscience because if he was able to do so [through his attribute of omnipotence] then he could be excused for not knowing the outcomes of his own actions, as if those actions could be called into question and judged as ‘evil’ unless YHWH is able to ignore his attribute of omniscience.
That is false dichotomy.
There is no reason why YHWH would have to be considered “evil” for knowingly doing what he did and knowing that doing what he did would turn out the way that it did.
Another observation linked to the subject matter [the garden story] is the Christian belief that before sin entered the world, the whole earth was a paradise.
The JW’s rest the whole of their beliefs on this assumption and as a result, argue for something based upon misrepresentation of something else.
The scriptural evidence for the truth of my assertion here, is the garden story telling us that the earth required subduing and that is why YHWH created humans.
The evidence against the ‘whole earth was a paradise’ belief, is that something which is already paradise [The whole Earth as the Christians - including you - tell it] would have no need to be subdued.
The third observation is that the Hebrews regard the garden story as a metaphor designed to parable a particular thing and it was never taken as literal.
The Christian culture chose to take the story literally and further contributed in creating the problem of evil through misrepresentation of YHWH.[/quote]
GM: Mirroring
The External Voice
Individuals
You’re in the way Queen Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Windsor For the benefit of all beings
The Right Tool For The Job
That can be shoved back into whatever hole it came from
[quote] William: This was part of a reply I gave today re Tanager and My discussion of Simulation Theory; Re: In The Beginning… On YHVH being life
[quote]Do you understand YHVH’s influence as separate from YHVH’s will?
One’s general hesitancy with accepting YHVH is life, must have the side affect of not being able to trust in the connect, which means one will go elsewhere - outside of their self - to other personalities and trust in them, and confuse ones connect with YHVH as being through others.[/quote][/quote]
GM: Ikigai [is a Japanese concept that means your 'reason for being. ’ ‘Iki’ in Japanese means ‘life,’ and ‘gai’ describes value or worth.]
Perhaps Free Will, is the ability to tell one’s brain what to think
Numbers Station
Natural
Even As An Elemental Principle
How to get this to happen on a planetary scale is the thing…
Volunteer
William: FTL; Re: Paradise on Earth
Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #2347[quote][]
Biology is not the issue - it is a symptom of Spirit in relation to physical form - something which was manifested due to the duality of Earth-YHWH when they created in their image.
This is most apparent in the form of Hermaphrodite, where the two become one. I would post a pic of a human Hermaphrodite, but since I already have two strikes against my evil name, I daren’t run the risk of offending someone and being complained about, if I want to continue posting hereabouts.
If you have a problem with calling Dad, Mom then by all means don’t.
I myself am allowed by YHWH to do so, and nothing you or any other Christian, [or Jew or Islamist] have any legal protest on the matter.
The best you can do is bow to my right to do so, and respect it, as much as I have to respect your position on the matter.
YHWH choses to be referred to any way I feel is appropriate. That is the nature of Our Bond.
Also - humans are not strictly ‘bound’ by gender identity - It is more a case of education than of nature that humans look at their bodies and decide by that, what it is that they are.
For example, I look at my body and I see a male human.
The difference is that I understand that I am the one doing the observing through the form I inhabit. I am The Ghost in that machine - meaty as it might be - I am not the form and no human really is.
We are Children of YHWH whom together breathed us into this reality.
Those who don’t know this truth about themselves, cannot take that truth away from others no matter how convincing or authoritative they make appearances of being.
YHWH informs me that Jesus had a specific job to do which required him NOT referring to YHWH as “YHWH” and Jesus knew that his mission would be over way before it even started if he had referred to YHWH as “The Mother.”
That is because - by then - the truth had been buried under gender-dominant history of the human self identifying as “Male” and females in that world are always second to that.
Whereas within YHWH there is equity - an equality of joint purpose. Neither aspect occupies The Throne without the Other.
“Let Us Create” Do you think YHWH was talking to “the boys” when She spoke those words?
She was talking to her Husband and just happens to be married to Herself. Something we all must do eventually.
I have already addressed that history. Male dominated religions are always going to have a male image of YHWH. I am not interested in focusing on images of YHWH presented to me by men.
Nor am I interested in any attempt to try and manipulate YHWH within the confines of ink and paper processed by the minds of such men.
That is why I see YHWH in the Earth-consciousness and that is how YHWH created life on Earth.
I commune with that consciousness and find out what is being hidden…that allows for the individual and YHWH to move together outside of any human invented restrictions.
I also understand that Earth-YHWH is ‘a god in the making’ which Milky Way YHWH gave birth to and that Universal Entity YHWH oversees the whole unfolding reality with little-to-no interference re said processes.
“The Universe” is Universal YHWH’s “God-Making Machine”.
In this, with the additional mix of Andromeda touching - as the merge takes hold, the two Galactic YHWHs will become one, so 'much change on the way".
The choice of pronouns was the choice of those men who wrote it that way.
“dispresectful” = like a ‘cult’ only ‘official’. [dispersion re sect full]
re what you meant to write…
“Our Mother Who Art In Heaven” is hardly “disrespectful”. [/quote]
GM: We succeed as a permanent specie or we fail as a temporary one
William: FTL; Re: The mind as evidence of god
[quote]William: What do these unsupported statements have to do with the subject? Transponder: Everything William: Do you include the mind along with Everything?
Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #93[]
Your unsupported statements have what to do with whatever I mean by “Mind” and whatever I mean by “Everything”?
Whereas I can and logically must assume the Natural Neutral position on any matters yet to be unproven or proven.
[Our positions are therefore unaligned.]
Your position assumes established truth where no such truth has been established re whether or not we exist within a creation.
The very fact that your choice of word [“woo”] belies the open-mindedness you proclaim to have.
I am reminded of a hunter who goes out and gets food for himself rather than expecting the food to come to him/her.
The data is there to hunt down and to study. An open minded non-judgmental approach is essential to that process. The process is also dependent upon the position one is approaching the data from. The closeminded belief that one does not exist within a creation can only ever lead one to learn things through that filter.
No amount of evidence given should ever be hoped for in order to change any individuals mind from the influencing aspects of their chosen position, regardless if those positions be theist or atheist based.
On top of that, it is very apparent that the type of convincing evidence you are demanding from the position you are demanding it from, will unlikely be available to any of us in this lifetime.
Thus, we are forced for now to do most of our hunting, solo.
We can of course, cross reference with other open-minded fellows…but the open-mindedness derives from the Natural Neutral position, not the theist or atheist positions.
I think that atheists strongly defend their position on the question as to whether or not we exist within a creation - to the point that they believe we don’t and make claims about that - has something to do with the need to say “I told you so” now, because it will be too late to utter such belief-based expressions - after they are dead and gone.
I can see the attraction from a phycological perspective, but saying “I told you so” before any such thing has been established, is jumping the gun, and might even lead to embarrassment if it turns out one still exists after the fact ones brain has died.
Still, such is the power of belief-based positions. They tend toward making proclamations which imply established truth, when no such truth has been established.
eta: woo-woo
/ˈwuːˌwuː/ relating to or holding unconventional beliefs regarded as having little or no scientific basis, especially those relating to spirituality, mysticism, or alternative medicine.
What does slang woo woo mean?
Noun. woo woo (countable and uncountable, plural woo woos) (slang, derogatory) A person readily accepting supernatural, paranormal, occult, or pseudoscientific phenomena, or emotion-based beliefs and explanations. That reporter is a bit of a woo woo. (slang, derogatory)[/quote]
GM: All systems go
Infinitely Infinitesimal
Precognition
William: FTL; Re: Is this an Accurate and Easily understood definition of Atheism?
[quote]
[quote]Also, not every discussion on this forum is strictly for/against Christianity, like the broad question of whether God exists, or, you know, this thread. In many of those discussions, the distinction between atheism and agnosticism remain important, as you already agreed.
So I don’t see a compelling reason in your responses to collapse them together.[/quote]
From what I think I understand so far, on the question of whether a creator [GOD] exists, a person who say’s “maybe-maybe not” is categorized as a “weak atheist” by atheists, due to the not knowing and not having faith so not believing.
It is a simple matter of belief, because if there is a Creator GOD - there is no direct way of knowing and there is no sure way of showing any indirect way if there is or not.
The term “weak atheist” appears to be derogatory in relation to being a strong atheist, who appear to be those who have taken the step into believing that a Creator GOD does not exist, and expressing that belief into the community.
I think that perhaps some agnostics have a problem with accepting the term “weak” as it implies they are apathetic, indifferent, [stuff like that] and those ones at least are making efforts to examine the question and have not reached a point where they feel they can honestly make a choice either way.
I have also observed that many ex- theists who have chosen to become [proselyte] strong atheists are among the most outspoken in their zeal to preach their new message - the message that a Creator GOD does not exist and think it is reasonable to assume that they were also outspoken when they believed that a Creator-GOD did exist.
[I think of it therefore, in terms of personality traits.]
When I began to question theism - specifically The Christianities - it was to do with their imaging of a Creator-GOD and when I made the move away from that, [perhaps largely due to my personality - I was never outspoken] I quietly approached the subject [Creator GOD] rather than simply abandon it “because of” theisms handling of it or any other number of reason as to why folk say they chose to become atheist.
Which is to say, I did not choose to believe that there was no Creator-GOD simply on account of “theist behaviours” or “reading the bible” [some reasons given by some who have changed position from theist to atheist] but rather, I chose to examine the question in more detail, and today I am grateful for having made that choice.
One thing I have learned is that the real question to be asking is not the one which separates “atheist” from “theist” [demanding that an individual must either be one or the other re the question] as believing or not believing in the existence of a Creator [and in the case of believing that there is - defining that Creator] because this step is jumping the gun and is thus a mis-step or stumble.
So - from my position, I see both atheists and theists as having jumped the gun, and instead of working together [as people] on finding answers to the Real Question which we should be asking, they fight over the question of a Creator GOD.
It is from that position I remain firm that I am neither theist or atheist, or for that matter - even agnostic - because the question re the existence of a Creator isn’t the one I have been asking and finding out answers to.[/quote]
GM: It is more logical that something has always existed than nothing existed before something existed
Most
Of Your Thoughts
Kristallnacht [On November 9–10, 1938, Nazi leaders unleashed a series of pogroms against the Jewish population in Germany and recently incorporated territories. This event came to be called Kristallnacht (The Night of Broken Glass) because of the shattered glass that littered the streets after the vandalism and destruction of Jewish-owned businesses, synagogues, and homes. ]
Beyond Belief Recovery https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1090475#p1090475
William: FTL; Re: Evil thoughts?
[quote]Given what we understand of DNA et al - things which were once socially accepted - taken for granted - done without guilt - which are then considered to be evil by a more modern society which has connected the dots and discovered therein that the act of abusing children has social consequences primarily in the negative - this works against the society advancing and is thus seen as a threat which requires dealing to.
Thinking about [fantasize about] molesting children may be a throwback connection to those former actions we can inherit but if they are not recognized as such and dealt with accordingly, the chances one will eventually be dissatisfied with mere fantasy and proceed to actualizing will significantly increase and the results will not be easy to deal with for either the victim nor the victimizer.
One may not be able to stop the birds flying overhead, but one is able to stop them nesting in ones hair.[/quote]
GM: The Ghost Agenda
The Sioux Elder
Curtailed
This moment is the perfect teacher
Perhaps Free Will, is the ability to tell one’s brain what to think
We don’t have to say we are ‘this’ or ‘that’ in order to put practice to Love
“Don’t judge each day by the harvest you reap but by the seeds that you plant.”
♬Down through the ages - dark in the gloom Many convinced it will all end in doom The Galactic Garden is forever in bloom♬ Central to The Message
Red Pill Crystal Blue Pill Real Be real
Energies Renewed
Precognitive
The sound of a Ghost
Ask…
Psychological events Enlighten Discussion Forum Training
The Singularity
The Purple Heart medal
The Realm of Judgement
GM: Communicating with Consciousness - The Nature of The Mind
How can an omnipotent being regret anything?
Teachings
Perhaps Free Will, is the ability to tell one’s brain what to think
What is the meaning of life?
“We’re two opinions deep before we can even analyze the moral question.” https://forum.philosophynow.org/viewtopic.php?p=564522#p564522
William: FTL; Re: nihilism
[quote]
[quote]Because they say God is the one who does it changes the fact they believe intentionally inflicting pain, suffering, or loss, as punishment or retribution, is a form of justice? Don’t they think God is administering justice? I can’t see how indicating who administers justice changes its meaning.
Sorry, I just don’t get you, “point?”[/quote]
[quote]I suppose my point is that I understand that they believe that God has the right to administer such punishment as Justice, and there is no evil attached to that.
In the same way there is no evil attached to humans administering justice and even the death penalty, earth-side.
Some Christians do argue that humans have no right to take human life and thus the taking of life is evil - but I have never meet any who advocate “let the rabid dogs free to roam and abuse as they will!”.[/quote]
[quote]That seems to be somewhat twisted. :?:
While I do understand your concerns, ideas of good and evil are natural products of survival.
While humans have insinuated that a Creator-God is real rather than imagined, it is only natural to include therein, that The Creator instilled this within the creation.
Where the wheels get wobbly, is when morals [Laws] become fixed and immovable - not something that nature itself is - by attributing said Laws as “coming from The Creator”.[/quote][/quote]
GM: Falling asleep
Angelic Agenda
Strength
Instant
The Patupaiarehe
This isn’t about thoughts and language. This is about behaviours and actions.
Hand In Hand
The power of silence
“0 (zero) is a number, and the numerical digit used to represent that number in numerals. It fulfills a central role in mathematics as the additive identity of the integers, real numbers, and many other algebraic structures. As a digit, 0 is used as a placeholder in place value systems.”
I now search “is zero a real number”
“Real numbers are, in fact, pretty much any number that you can think of. This can include whole numbers or integers, fractions, rational numbers and irrational numbers. Real numbers can be positive or negative, and include the number zero.”
I would suppose re "Couldn’t this be our ability to detect consciousness vanishes? " in that there is zero ability to detect something which was once detectable and now is not.
Does the possibility that being unable to detect something as existing, allow for the right to include zero as representing something real, which is not?
Zero makes the mathematics work…but if zero [representing nothing] is a fraudulent necessity, then perhaps the interpretation of mathematics is incorrect, and perhaps the reason mathematic works [is correct] is because the zero isn’t really representing nothing, so much as it represents something which is not detectable but still exists as something.[/quote]
GM: Here Am I Is Where I Ought - Examining My Conscious Thought
Eye to Eye
Independent from what?
William: This is what I conveyed to Tanager this morning;
[Replying to Bust Nak in post #655]
The same way as I know that the mind does not physically exist. I do not know if the mind is fundamental to the physical universe but I suspect [strongly] that the physical universe would be useless without it.
So the mind wouldn’t be so useful without mathematics and time [the obvious Daughter [subset] of numbers] and therefore - while not obvious in any way - it is possible that Mind is a fundamental property of our universe…and that Mathematics is a Son [subset] of said Mind.
Point being - all known conceptual properties of the mind are known to exist only in the mind, and are not physically real and can only be represented physically as “unreal but existing anyway” or some such other appropriate entitlement…
It may indeed be the case that Physicists are not being careful with their heading and wording. “Doomed” does imply the certainty of death…I am only relaying the basic information. I do my own digging and for now, accept the verdict being pronounced upon spacetime by physicists themselves. If you have contrary information, I am keen to view it.
[quote]Logically, some thing cannot derive from no thing.
Since this infers infinite regression [as well as infinite progression], there is no logical justification to refer to such as “fallacy”. [re “Turtles all the way down.”]
Explanation of apparent beginnings [such as with our universe] therefore has to be seen as points within infinity…[/quote]
Someone already has. Please watch the video I posted earlier on in this thread…the one with the visuals of a flyover of the Mandelbrot Set.
And “something else” is “all things”.
[quote]The idea is based on the theory of entropy.
Search “the theory of entropy”
“In classical physics, the entropy of a physical system is proportional to the quantity of energy no longer available to do physical work. Entropy is central to the second law of thermodynamics, which states that in an isolated system any activity increases the entropy.”[/quote]
Without energy, what is left to construct and maintain shapeform from the field of quantum particles?
Just checking.
I think the more appropriate word to use in that sentence would have to be;
“it took a false premise for energy to turn into matter” as energy does not turn into matter. Energy holds the shape of matter. Matter already existed. The theory of entropy has it that energy is passing through quantum field and creating form as it does so. As “time” marches on, the past becomes a “wake” like footprints in the snow and eventually disappear as if energy had simply been a Ghost in passing.
So. Do you think that “Time” = “Energy”? Or do you think are separate entities, doing their own separate thing?
“We” also say that time will keep going on forever…yet the past is fading into black…in order for time to last forever, energy has to also exist forever.
Energy cannot have simply farted itself into existence. Therefore logic informs us that it is likely that energy has existed forever…has always existed. Has never - not existed.
That depends entirely on the plain of the Quantum field.
For example, if the field is spherical, the energy moving over it and stirring it up into objects of matter, may be no more than a blip on the plain of the Quantum field. Once the energy moves on, the effect on that region diminishes until - once more - the deep silence returns.
I am fine with that idea as long as it is agreed there is only - fundamentally - the one Source. The apparent differences are not denoting “many sources”.[/quote] GM: Heuristic [enabling someone to discover or learn something for themselves. proceeding to a solution by trial and error or by rules that are only loosely defined. ]
Thanatophobic [an intense fear of death or dying]
The Fine Art of Not Being Offended
Regimented: Left -brain Right brain Whole brain
Exobots
The Son
Seductive What we call the experience of reality
Evidential Altruistic Behaviour Transactional
The Life Essence is Sovereign and Integral
Rich
Psychological events
First Source: Creator Influence Syndrome Planned obsolescence
How to be an adult
Internal motivation
I Ensure The Hierarchy Serves It’s Purpose
Add
Government secrets kept from the public
The Subject of Unidentified Flying Objects
Square and Compass
Perhaps Free Will, is the ability to tell one’s brain what to think
Morph
Action Station
It can be crazy and true at the same time
Top Limpid [completely clear and transparent. ] Conviction The Mind Behind Creation
Imposed Appropriates Observed
Chakra https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1077448#p1077448
William: FTL; Re: Does the body need consciousness?
[quote][quote][Replying to AgnosticBoy in post #34]
The important thing AB, is to keep trying. As Joey Knothead commented to me recently;
I myself lean toward theistic interpretation of existence because it works more directly with the fact of consciousness, rather than attempting to designate it as somehow ‘besides the point’ in relation to science.
To be fair, there are scientists who are focusing their attention on consciousness [Donald Hoffman for example] and his approach is genuine and he has much respect for his scientist peers.
It needs to be understood that the hard problem of consciousness is problematic because of the ideas which spring from the possibility that consciousness is not an emergent property of the brain - many do not want to ‘go there’ because of the stigma attached to it re ‘crazy’ folk who go too far without good supporting scientific structures to ensure that the ‘too far’ is always tempered by rationality and logic - because there is very strong evidence that lack of such support leads to cult-activity which either has its leaders and followers committing mass suicide or avoiding such through eventually becoming a ‘respected religion’ …both options unnecessary and avoidable by maintaining the solid practices science prides itself in acoomplishing.
Nevertheless, consciousness being the enigma it is - the “Ghost in The Machinery” - the stigma attached to that concept can only be erased if we learn to understand that there is nothing ‘super-natural’ about it - without having to resort to the notion that it is an emergent property of nature.[/quote][/quote]
GM: Unfolding Status Quo
Intention
The Sioux Elder
♬ You are a thought worth thinking You’re the water and the wine - you’re the cup from which I’m drinking You’re a surprise worth hoping for You are a captured moment - you’re a space without a time♬
William: As you are aware, my understanding of Evolution through Creation [implying creator/creators] has it that no argument is necessary as there is no real contradiction between the two theories.
GM: The Squeeze
Self-esteem…On The Other Hand… Self-love
Whole-hearted
Complete
Luminous [giving off light; bright or shining.]
Perhaps Free Will, is the ability to tell one’s brain what to think
The Elohim
Moonlight
Marijuana
Those Who Can What Fun We Have!
Contact With
William: Indeed! Are we beholden to rules which are more obviously human-made than specific to being inspired by Elohim?
The truth does set one free…
William: FTL; Re: Is this an Accurate and Easily understood definition of Atheism?
[quote][Replying to historia in post #80]
[quote]Also, not every discussion on this forum is strictly for/against Christianity, like the broad question of whether God exists, or, you know, this thread. In many of those discussions, the distinction between atheism and agnosticism remain important, as you already agreed.
So I don’t see a compelling reason in your responses to collapse them together.[/quote]
From what I think I understand so far, on the question of whether a creator [GOD] exists, a person who say’s “maybe-maybe not” is categorized as a “weak atheist” by atheists, due to the not knowing and not having faith so not believing.
It is a simple matter of belief, because if there is a Creator GOD - there is no direct way of knowing and there is no sure way of showing any indirect way if there is or not.
The term “weak atheist” appears to be derogatory in relation to being a strong atheist, who appear to be those who have taken the step into believing that a Creator GOD does not exist, and expressing that belief into the community.
I think that perhaps some agnostics have a problem with accepting the term “weak” as it implies they are apathetic, indifferent, [stuff like that] and those ones at least are making efforts to examine the question and have not reached a point where they feel they can honestly make a choice either way.
I have also observed that many ex- theists who have chosen to become [proselyte] strong atheists are among the most outspoken in their zeal to preach their new message - the message that a Creator GOD does not exist and think it is reasonable to assume that they were also outspoken when they believed that a Creator-GOD did exist.
[I think of it therefore, in terms of personality traits.]
When I began to question theism - specifically The Christianities - it was to do with their imaging of a Creator-GOD and when I made the move away from that, [perhaps largely due to my personality - I was never outspoken] I quietly approached the subject [Creator GOD] rather than simply abandon it “because of” theisms handling of it or any other number of reason as to why folk say they chose to become atheist.
Which is to say, I did not choose to believe that there was no Creator-GOD simply on account of “theist behaviours” or “reading the bible” [some reasons given by some who have changed position from theist to atheist] but rather, I chose to examine the question in more detail, and today I am grateful for having made that choice.
One thing I have learned is that the real question to be asking is not the one which separates “atheist” from “theist” [demanding that an individual must either be one or the other re the question] as believing or not believing in the existence of a Creator [and in the case of believing that there is - defining that Creator] because this step is jumping the gun and is thus a mis-step or stumble.
So - from my position, I see both atheists and theists as having jumped the gun, and instead of working together [as people] on finding answers to the Real Question which we should be asking, they fight over the question of a Creator GOD.
It is from that position I remain firm that I am neither theist or atheist, or for that matter - even agnostic - because the question re the existence of a Creator isn’t the one I have been asking and finding out answers to.[/quote]
[quote][quote]William: I have had similar experience re hypnogogic state …
Hearing footfalls on wooden floor {I was sleeping in a bunk in a building and was the only occupant at the time]
The footfalls stop outside my door - which was open and then I hear a deep laugh.
I snapped out of it [awoke] and immediately jumped out of bed and went to the doorway - no one was there [of course]
Some time later - months or even a year of two - I was at home in bed with my wife when I awoke to the same laugh and looking up I saw the entity at the end of the bed.
My reaction was layered - It was as if my body wanted to climb the walls looking to escape but my mind was clear and focused and I was aware that this part of me was way less afraid. I had the feeling that the entity was pure evil.
However, while I was directing my anger at the entity, he moved toward my side of the bed - his arms were crossed over his chest area - and as he got closer [he seemed to float rather than walk] he extended his arm out in the process of going to touch me.
We were looking each other in the eye - and it was at this moment that I somehow just knew that the entity loved me more than I had ever felt anyone love me - and knew me better than I knew myself and the love was purely unconditional
As with all my hypnogogic experiences, these began with the feeling of being forcibly held down - and when the entity began to reach his arm out to touch me, my anger assisted me in breaking the hold and I sat up and put my face directly in front of his and demanded he leave - and at that moment, I awoke and the entity was gone [or more likely - I could no longer see him.]
The whole incident took less than a minute.
The very next night, I [again in hypnogogic state] felt my wrists being taken hold of by a pair of invisible hands and I was lifted from a prone position to an upright one and when upright, I felt my arms being pushed over my chest in the same manner I had observed the entities arms crossed over his chest, the night before.
Once my arms were crossed, I felt the invisible hands let go of my wrists and it was then that I realized I was not in my body - this was my first conscious OOBE. It felt wonderful…[/quote]
GM: Attached
Ancient Grey Entity
Is it really that important that GOD is understood to be a male entity?
Perhaps Free Will, is the ability to tell one’s brain what to think
A Maze Game
Conscious dreaming Talk Help Each Other A Bright Star
Trustworthy Navigational Aids
The Trinity of Love are three things operating as One Thing https://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/vvilliam/generated-messages-year-mention-dreaming-march-2022-94859/ William: FTL; Generated messages this year, which mention dreaming - March 2022 DJ Entry
by VVilliam , 2022-10-08 at 09:42 (103 Views)
[quote]Generated messages this year, which mention dreaming
March GM: Active Dreaming - Angels - Equals - Make It Real
GM:: All Information Is Channelled
The Human Brain
Lojong
Opinion is that which has yet to be established as a matter of fact
William: refining and purifying one’s motivations and attitudes.
GM: Dream yoga
As You Think
Time Will Tell
Something
William: As it always does eventually
GM: There are many levels of consciousness
The Astral Body
Wish fulfillment
Being Born
Trustworthy
Experience
William: In whom are we trusting?
GM: Emotional Intelligence
Conscious dreaming
The Nature of This Place
GM: Dream Experience - Faithful
GM: Precognitive dreams
The Twelve Disciples
“A light breeze arriving and kissing my cheek at the same moment I am thinking life is beautiful”, is a message.
Cultivate
As Above So Below
Convenient
GM: Exploring the world of lucid dreaming
The Nature of This Place
GM: Sleeping Dragon=146
[146]
Invisible Bridge
Manifestation
Realities Merge
Interoperate
Transparent
Enlightenment
Relationship
True Colors
On all fronts
No axe to grind…
The Mother Bandage
GM: Perseverance
Golden nugget
Active dreaming
Connections
Becoming whole
GM: To Experience All That Is
Shamanic dreaming [relating to the beliefs and practices associated with a shaman.]
GM: When The Opportunity Presents Itself To Do So…
GM: What we call the experience of reality
Dreaming
Human Mind System
GM: Real
Coherence
Phasing
Think outside the box
Toward a Science of Consciousness
Your Dream Team
[Archangel Metatron
Putting My Finger On It…]
GM: William: "Love! Do we know the meaning Lord above? Inside my head is screaming out so tell me am I dreaming Or awake before this living nightmare of a world "
GM: Self
Peaceful Messiah
Validate
Think outside the box
GM: Higher Self Dream Guide
In William’s Room
GM: Within
We Could
Author
Final Dream
Wisdom
Angelic Agenda
Askēsis
William: Askesis = the procedure of demonstrating self-control and determination of action and purpose. The exercise of rigorous self-discipline, especially mental self-discipline practiced as a means to spiritual growth.
GM: Phenomenon
Anchors aweigh
Higher Self Dream Guide
Imposed Appropriates Observed
Stay
The Deeper Self
Power
Joining The Main Egregore
GM: He Who Waits
Perseverance
Golden nugget
Active dreaming
Connections
Becoming whole
It Is One Of Those Things = 256
[256]
The Right Tool For The Job
Suppression Matrix
Compass of Divine Insight
Extra evidence is provided
GM: Whatever you do
Dream Come True
GM: A New Perspective
Mother Earth
Realm of Dreams
GM: Realm of Dreams
Cheers!
GM: In The Flow
[Conscious dreaming]
GM: We have discussed
Dreamed Up By Yours Truly
Returning The Compliment
Astral Pulse
Getting Somewhere
Help
William: The Moon card shows a full moon in the night’s sky, positioned between two large towers. The Moon is a symbol of intuition, dreams, and the unconscious. Its light is dim compared to the sun, and only slightly illuminates the path to higher consciousness winding between the two towers.
GM: Telling the future
For The Purpose Of
Precognitive dreams
Intimate connection
The waters of the deep
GM: [Advice
God/Source/Home
The evolution of consciousness
Your Dream Team
Signs
It is neither good nor evil
Alive]
GM: Play
Oneirology - the scientific study of dreams
Exciting Changes Would Develop Naturally Enough From That
Connection]
GM: By/Through
To assist with strengthening the connect]
Following Your Intuition
~Putting yourself back together again~
Dream interpretation
GM: Egalitarian - Dream Village - Insights!
GM: Shamanic dreaming - Positivity - The Nature of This Place[/quote]
[quote]I am aware of confirmation bias and it is also on my ComList as a selectable subject.
I do not agree with you that either system I am using is fudged by confirmation bias.
What I can say is that it was bias which originally had me get into investigating this as I - at the time - was Agnostic but due to subjective experiences I have had, I leaned towards theism.
Because of the theistic leaning, I understand I was more inclined to making the effort to do the science because the subject interested me.
In the same way, most non-theists are not interested in doing the science because they lean toward non-theism.
Furthermore, only yesterday I decided that - due to the evidence revealed in the process of Generating Messages - I no longer have any reasonable option to retain the position of agnostic, and thus have dropped that altogether.
I am fine now with referring to my position as theistic, as agnosticism merges into the shadow behind me.
Now you might say that this is a clear case of bias, but I would argue that there must come a point in one’s lifetime, where whatever evidence one has discovered truth about, has to be accepted, and in the accepting, this is not being bias toward any particular aspect/branch of theism - but bias toward the revealed truth, which is that we exist within a creation and there is a mind behind the creation to which one can interreact with and learn from.
Who wouldn’t want that, if it were there on offer?
Perhaps only those who’s bias lean toward retaining the position of “lacking belief in gods”.
And if we are to be truthful [and why shouldn’t we be?] confirmation bias cuts both ways - non-theists are just as susceptible to that bias as theists are. Evidence supporting which way best to lean is subject to confirmation bias, I totally agree.
But once supporting evidence comes along, it is no longer a case of bias - it is a confident walk on the even surface of sureness, without the faith.
However, I am always open to being shown otherwise, but so far your efforts to convince me I am suffering confirmation bias and you trying to insert 26 a’s into the spoken language as some kind of justified argument, hasn’t helped your case at all.
Even so, I have full appreciation for your efforts, because even incorrect peer review is better than indifference.[/quote]
Perhaps Free Will, is the ability to tell one’s brain what to think 6
171122 [How the Devil got his horns]
06:47 [Be grateful to everyone]
GM: Where life and death is part of a circle and everything is part of the Ouroboros
Make a list for that
William: Presently a list is being made re Tanager and my relationship development.
So far - the list is as follows;
[quote]Agreement List:
1: We exist within a creation.
2: Simulation Theory is a valid way to interpret the Biblical stories.
3: YVHV placed humans into this universe to grow personalities.
4: The purpose of YVHV growing human personalities is so that these would potentially gain experience of the truth of the reason for their environment and their temporary experience within it.
5: It is an advantage to all grown personalities to be consciously and consistently connected with YVHV and thus understand and support YVHVs initiatives.
6: Human personalities - upon the death of their body-sets - move on to other experiences.
7: Anything which changes is not the same thing as it once was.
8: YHVH is not a simulation.
9: YHVH’s agenda continues regardless of whether humans understand good or evil the way YHVH understands it, or not
10: A resurrected body does not imply the same body
11: YHVH does not practice evil
12: Those who act against the agenda of YHVH, accuse YHVH of being evil.
13: YVHV uses what YVHV will to get the message across…
14: Simulation Theory can fit with the story of Jesus’ ascension.
15: Simulation Theory can validate non-biblical stories as well.
16: Things experienced in simulation are still real experiences
17: We cannot say - either of the story of Jesus, or indeed, any other Biblical story - that these stories do not reveal simulation theory.
18: We must continually question the teachings we’ve bought into, what we grew up in, what we want to be true, etc.
19: Insights come naturally to those who are in genuine relationship with YHVH
20: Those who are in genuine relationship with YHVH recognize the similarity while also acknowledging the unique in others who are also in genuine relationship with YHVH.
22: What we do agree on, can help us formulate a better relationship with each other, re YHVH.
23: We do not conflate using Discernment, with being Judgmental. Discern…without any accompanying judgmentalism…[It allows for one to unravel to complexities]
This was mentioned earlier {Link to highlight}
For example, one can discern a mistake in the following.
It is a mistake to conflate being able to discern something with being able to be judgmental about something.
Agreed?
24: YVHV is The Judge.[/quote]
William: The Agreement List is a living document, in that it can be amended and added to.
GM: Galactic Encompassment
Please process this word using your Name2Nunumber list.
Crystal Contacts
Fine-structure Constant
Study
William: Study Fine-structure Crystal Constant Contacts = 567
[567]
The Individual Human Mind Telepathy Sovereignty Trick
Words are sounds and the written word is sound encoded
Study Fine-structure Crystal Constant Contacts
The Visitation Event Heuristic Fearlessness Decisive
[Heuristic = enabling someone to discover or learn something for themselves. proceeding to a solution by trial and error or by rules that are only loosely defined. ]
GM: Toxic shame
William: as in;
William: and my comment to Tanager;
[quote]“Mistakes” belongs in the same category as “Supernatural” in that it has no place in our discussion, if by its use, you are referring to anything in a judgmental manner.
In that, we will have to agree with the following;
23: We do not conflate using discernment, with being Judgmental.{SOURCE}[/quote] GM:Tetrahedron
The House of Culture
Re Abusive Expression Of All Types.
Perhaps Free Will, is the ability to tell one’s brain what to think
Well That Settles It! What Fun We Have! Cadriel
Splitting hairs achieves nothing. “I am that I am” = “I will be what I will be.” and still fits in with what I wrote; In other words;
“I will be what I will be.” [YHWH] allows everyone the right of passage to decide for themselves as to who this entity is, to them.
So if some say “LORD” or “GOD” or “Murdering Psychopath” or “Invisible Sky Daddy” et al - there is no requirement to accuse Satan of misleading them in their deciding for themselves.
God is to everyone, whatever they choose God to being, through their world view.
However, since this is not the subject of the thread topic - if you want to argue it more, I suggest that another thread be created in order to do so.[/quote]
William: FTL; Re: JW’s claim of Kingdom of God establish in 1914?
[quote][Replying to onewithhim in post #117]
That’s what I was saying, when I wrote;
However, I do not have one name for my God. I have many names [including YHVH] for The Cosmic Mind of Creation.
[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #118]
Those with no knowledge of scripture today cannot obey the first commandment.
That is not support for the bolded statement above.
Indeed, ‘You must love The Creator with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole strength and with your whole mind’ is something folk can do, even if they have no access to any religious script.
The other biblical quotes bear witness to how individuals related to their idea of God - in love…indeed, the bible is mostly a books of stories to do with this inter-personal relationship.
And to add - many of those individuals did not even have access to what you are saying is ‘Scripture’ - so it would not be errant of me to point out that there is no concrete evidence to support the belief that knowledge of scripture is a commandment, even implicatively.
Certainly one can find inspiration for wanting to connect and commune, but this is simply not limited to the bible - thus quite obviously there is no such commandment that scripture be known, in order for one to connect and commune with The Creator Mind [Ghost] - therefore the knowledge must be sourced elsewhere, and primarily it must be sourced within the relationship itself - not to the stories of others [as inspiring as these might be] but to ones own story in relation with others.[/quote]
William: Meeting with the familiar re the next level experience the personality can have…as it is often reported by those who experience near-death alternate states of conscious awareness/reality.
GM: Perhaps Free Will, is the ability to tell one’s brain what to think
[Rainbows Appear at Windsor Castle and Buckingham Palace After Queen Elizabeth’s Death]
GM:Merging with the data
Spacetime is not fundamental
Epigenetic [relating to or arising from] Memories
Just Be - All Else Will Follow
Three Fish
Our movements can illuminate the path toward that vision. A Bit Of Cat And Mouse Control
Charity
Heart advice
Conscious
Please process this word using your Name2Nunumber list.
William: Conscious Heart advice = 214
[214]
Ancient Grey Entity
Independent from what?
Monkey See Monkey Do
Reinhard Heydrich’s death
Nazi Space Program Agenda
The Undiscovered Self
About face Jehovah acceptance
When things fall apart
If In Doubt Let It Sit
Conscious Heart advice
‘Developing a thick skin’
Conspiracy theory
William: The unpacking of history re YHVH… = 350
[350]
Abiogenesis Union With Divinity
I place no judgement on the results.
Dancing past The Dark You feel love again
The unpacking of history re YHVH…
William: Yes. It is a process the individual personality must go through in order to reach beyond that…
GM: It is a process the individual personality must go through in order to reach beyond that… = 904
A conspiracy theory involving theists actively attempting to wrongfoot atheism… = 904
SCLx10+SLLE
Preamble:
Interactions - Is Love That Hard To Know? - Making Up Stories - The Story of Caliban - The Human Brain - The Supernatural and the Bible - Shoe - Please place this on your ComList - Actual realistic communication - Data
William: Data actual realistic communication - = 330
[330]
Data actual realistic communication
The Realm of The Knowing of My Self
I Think – Therefore – Who Do I Think I Am?
This moment is the perfect teacher
It is a slippery path of snake-oil.
Living our forefathers’ conflict
Actions speak louder than words
Mission Functional Clusters
Proposition for Debate:
There is no God, because if there were, he would not have bothered to create the universe or us. Therefore, does not our very existence prove there is no God?
[/quote]
From another thread;
[quote]Compassionist: I think being omniscient and omnipotent would give one free will. Since I am not omniscient and omnipotent, I can’t know that for sure.
William: What process did you use in order to come to the declaration that being omniscient and omnipotent would give one free will/amount to one having free will?
Compassionist: I realize that if I were all-knowing and all-powerful, I would be free from all constraints and my will won’t be determined by my genes, environments, nutrients and experiences.
William: Let us examine this idea together then.
I see immediately that if I were all-knowing. I would be constrained by my omniscience.
Thus I would have no free will in relation to being all knowing.
Yet - being also all-powerful, I would be able to break free from the constraints of being all-knowing.
Would you agree with this assessment, so far?[/quote]
Unfortunately I got no more interaction from Compassionist re this…and now this thread.
Your Proposition for Debate is something of straw because it failed to add in the aspect of the idea of GOD to do with being all powerful.
An all powerful GOD [omnipotent] who knew everything could indeed have created this universe, and the existence of this universe goes some way toward evidence which gives us - in our existing - an understanding of why we exist in such an environment as we do.
Also, your assumption that the GOD would be lonely and terrified and without purpose is what I refer to as “Mirror-Mirror” as one places what one believes of of oneself, into the GOD-role and "Hey Presto!’
What you see is what you get.
This same thing carries over into the next faze, given the many NDEs people have shared to the world. Whether they know it or not, each individual who meets GOD through NDE meets a being to which they place their own images onto, which in turn effects the way the GOD goes about showing them things.
Which is to say, if one thinks of GOD as being lonely and terrified and without purpose, there are places which accommodate such individuals and such individuals get to experience such places…according to the stories circulating…
But anyway, it is my purpose to warn folk about how they think about GOD - specifically to try and assist them in way which might help them use their freeish will to avoid such fate.
The grounds for your Proposition for Debate “There is no God” are faulty Diogenes. They are a false image of the self, superimposed upon the structure of GOD.
William: I suppose that playing dumb is a symptom of wilfully choosing to remain in ignorance and yet believe one’s argument from that ignorance is still an acceptable debate tactic…
GM: The Trinity of Love
Cycle
Think About It
The Need Determines the Value
The Dizzying Heights of Intellectually Honest Conversations
Individuation
Self
Examples
Enflame Emotions “Oops”… Always
The Life Essence
Making The Best of a Bad Situation
Quiet Time
Salient [most noticeable or important.]
Especially re the possibility of the planet having a mind in which all our minds are connected…in ways we are not overly conscious of…
A countenance more in sorrow than in anger
Out of the doldrums
Same propellent - different perspectives.
Contentment
Do A=1
Might even cause Dad to crack a smile…who knows!
Name The Gods as non-separate Entities
William: Name The Gods as non-separate Entities -Might even cause Dad to crack a smile…who knows! = 779
[779]
It is a good sign when Joey Knothead cannot argue against the evidence you present
Name The Gods as non-separate Entities - Might even cause Dad to crack a smile…who knows!
Things are not always as they might appear to be…Wonder. Stop. Listen. Observe.
[quote]Falls
Open The Divine
One Dollar You’re blocking the light
Sensory Data Quality To Be Sovereignty
Sweet Vibrations Putting My Finger On It…
Creation of a New Universe This Is My Kind Of Fun
The Mother and The Father
[/quote]
GM: Look Closely Talk George Adamski Insidious Clumsy
Appreciating
Very. The imagery may be different, but the subject matter is - overall - similar.
I haven’t asserted that at all. The brain obviously has something to do with the process, but to what degree isn’t really know because it isn’t really well understood. Certainly not as well understood as some individuals assert, from their various positions of belief on such matters.
Who asserted ‘supernatural’? I myself avoid using the word.
What we know about the brain is that it - in all cases - does not see the world as it fundamentally is, and inserts interpretations of what it is experiencing [through its nervous system] into the consciousness connected to that.
The consciousness connected to that, has started become aware of this process and the connotations therein. The brain is just telling it like it believes it is experiencing it [reality] and consciousness just eats it up as if it were the truth…things are changing…
[quote]GM: [The Truth
Well defined yet scantily supported opinion] {SOURCE}[/quote]
We [rightfully] question what the brain tells us about the experiential reality.
I am not convinced.
I have not denied anything. I have pointed out that the analogy of Santa Claus is not what appears is being implied by Dr. Clancy. Are you saying that in her book she makes this analogy herself?
Even if she does, the analogy is based upon the idea that the brain creates the mind, which is something that has not been established as anything other than well defined, yet scantily supported opinion.
I do however acknowledge that brains are not reading reality as reality fundamentally is. That is a known fact.
∴ one cannot conclude that what the brain is telling us or how we are choosing to interpret that telling, is anything other than than well defined, yet scantily supported opinion.
Jung may have it correct while graphing with how to present a largely invisible reality to a largely visible one.
How are we to tell if we are ‘minds within a mind’?
I would say, we best not leave it entirely up to the brain to inform us - since the brain is as Lost In The Thought Of It All anyway…[/quote]
William: This connects with a post I made today replying to Difflugia
[quote][Replying to Difflugia in post #248]
The FSM as well as the other things you mentioned, are known imagery. The ghost dressed, as it were.
How does any actual invisible entity fit in with these ones which have been made conceptionally visible?
I have not found/been shown a way to fit these things together, so have to remain agnostically positioned for the time being, re the subject.
That is an expression I know to be misinformation. Not to say that I do not understand the process which provide folk with a means of jumping to such a conclusion, but the evidence clearly shows the presumption is incorrect.
You are speaking about a subset of overall theology, [specifically, religion] not of theology itself.
Or that the Star Trek universe actually exists…
Adequately explaining religion. Shall we agree that religion is just a a subset of Theology and not conflate the two?
The willing to believers are the easier to discredit re beliefs, since beliefs [all beliefs not just theistic based ones] are always easier to show where misinformation derives.
Moving the goalposts won’t help your failing argument, Difflugia.
Rather, think about expressing differently and keeping to the subject at hand.
[Not that I am saying that recognition of misinformation doesn’t contribute to my ability to drop into sleep without difficulty…but that it is besides the point.]
All you said was;
QM fits that script
From an agnostic position, yes, it is a valid argument.
Have you not hear the news!? Spacetime is doomed!
The concept I focus on is the one which say’s we may be existing within a creation/created thing.
Spacetime - being shown by quantum mathematicians, to being NOT fundamental to what we have been referring to as “Reality” - shows us that our answers are not to be found simply in the observing of our current situation re Spacetime.
This does not mean that we have to claim that the FSM or any other conceptual image dreamed up is the fundamental reason for why we exist within Spacetime, but that Spacetime is not the reason for its own existence.
Agnostically speaking, we therefore have some sorting out to do to - perhaps - find answers in the middle.
What we best not do is form beliefs, either for or against…
Can these disciplines show us that QM is mistaken, and that Spacetime is fundamental to itself?
If not, then they are not much use to us re the question “Do we exist within a created thing?”
[quote][quote=Compassionist post_id=1077821 time=1652722963 user_id=3518] https://reformedwiki.com/verses/predestination If God predestined the lives of humans, how can it be just for God to send some to heaven and some to hell?
[/quote]
[quote]The Three Biblical Interpretations About Afterlife [1] A “Person” is “Spirit” and temporarily exists as a human being until the body dies then that “Person” enters an afterlife and is judged by “God” and is condemned or saved. Those saved go to “heaven” and those condemned go to “Hell” - or in some variances on this, are “exterminated”.
[2] A “Person” a “Human being” and when the human being dies, that is the end of that person unless “God” judges them as “saved” in which case that person is resurrected and given a new body which will last forever more.
[3] A “Person” is an eternal Spirit in human form and when the body dies, that Spirit immediately moves to the next phase and either knowingly or unknowingly creates for their self, their next experience, based upon a combination of mainly what they believe, what their overall attitude is and what they did in the previous phase.
Often any different position which opposes another might logically mean that they both cannot be correct, assuming one or the other is true.
Both [1]&[2] fall into this category as they cannot both be true. [1]&[2] also both agree that [3] is false.
However, [3] Can be true without making the other two false.
And [3] - just as with [1]&[2] can be backed by the bible, depending on what parts of the bible once uses to do so.
The bible is interpreted throughout, based upon which position [1][2] or [3] is being used to interpret it through [the filter].
If [1]&[2] oppose each other but can still be “proven” by using the bible, then this makes the bible something of a contradiction.
But if [3] - although different from [1]&[2] does not oppose either [1]&[2] and can still be “proven” by using the bible just like [1]&[2], then [3] takes away the contradictory aspect of the bible which [1]&[2] create by being in opposition. {SOURCE}
[/quote]
Taking [3] into consideration;
your question can be answered that Justice is served and that it is not any Spirit [God] but ones self who ‘sends’ that self to the places that self experiences.
That is the short answer.
re the “combination of mainly what they believe, what their overall attitude is and what they did” and predestination, The game is created by Spirit Entities [the players] and is naturally complex.
The idea is for an Eternal Entity [EE] to enter the Human Avatar [HA] and become completely unaware of any prior existence. The HA provides the means in which this amnesia is made possible.
From that point on, a character forms and personality develops - none of which are reflective of the EE [game player]. The Character and Personality formed through the interaction, are purely fictional in relation to the EE, but have the potential to be ‘made real’, which is accomplished through Phases of experience, which include experiences of heavens and hells.
Heavens and Hells are part of the Game-Play experience.[/quote]
GM: Deciding On the Best Course of Action
Attitude of gratitude
From the link
Life On Mars
Earth teachers (physical and non-physical) unite humanity to the Sovereign Integral
Same propellent - different perspectives. https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1077445#p1077445
William: Re: Does the body need consciousness?
[quote][quote=AgnosticBoy post_id=1077445 time=1652385820 user_id=13726]
The way I look at it is that if consciousness equals brain or is a product of it, then scientists should be able to discover subjective experience or deduce its existence simply by studying the brain. To date, that seems inconceivable that that would happen. I brought this up to DrNoGods before, as i’m sure many others have in different ways, yet he continues to claim that consciousness poses no special challenge to science or materialism.
The facts are that the ONLY way scientists know of subjective experience (or consciousness) is because we all experience it and can report it. Scientists did not discover its existence empirically nor did they deduce its existence. Our knowledge of neural correlates would not exist unless the subject was able to tell us what they’re experiencing while observing their corresponding brain activity. SO even our neural correlates of consciousness are simply neural correlates of our subjective reports of our experience.
If anything William, we can just look at the history of science on this issue. We can find that scientists have tried to take the cheap way out by banning the study of consciousness. That’s doesn’t exactly match the pattern of success of materialist science to boldly take on challenges and to explain things and develop technology. But here we are, William and I (two humble agnostics), still not taken seriously because we dare to consider that consciousness might be something that’s less than physical.
[/quote][/quote]
GM: Fear intimidation distraction exploitation
Sensory Data Quality
Dohrman Prophecy Book Introduction
Good on you mate Learn Well
Self-acceptance
Concision
It Stands To Reason
Impressionable
We Can Do Magic!
10:03 [The Shaping Of Reality]
William: Yes…“YHWH gives nature a voice.”
[quote][Replying to 2timothy316 in post #4]
Being related to the serpent re being a belly-crawler…and investing its support for theistic and atheistic thinkers alike.
Into the hellfire with the worm! - shouldn’t be too much of a problem for it, since the worm has already endured being in the belly of a human.
How are farts created… :?:
And why does hellfire smell like farts? [according to popular mythology]
Meanwhile, “stories”.
[quote]William: Are Religious Beliefs Delusional?
GM: Row your own boat! I AM Will Navigate!
Atheistic Thinker: Nothing I’ve learned since the decision I made that Religious Beliefs ARE Delusional, has changed my mind, but if a god being made itself known in some way that was convincing to me … I’d be happy to flip.
William: I myself doubt that this could ever be achieved for you, due to your making it the way that it is, through your own decisions, rather than through any god failing to pay you a visit.
[quote=Narrative]Any god-being: Okay Atheistic Thinker - I have risen to your challenge. You see me now. Are you ready to flip?
Atheistic Thinker: Of course not! You are simply a product of my brain which obviously is having some kind of malfunction which has caused this delusion.
Any god-being: What if I stripped you naked, pinched you by the scruff and dangled you over the everlasting hellfire and threatened to drop you in it. Would you consider flipping then?[/quote]
GM: Necessity is The Mother of Invention
William: I would argue that Atheistic Thinker would continue arguing that his brain was being delusional. That even if he felt the pinch of his neck, the rising heat of the hellfire doom, the pooh running down his legs - he would cling to the belief that Religious Beliefs ARE Delusional and that he would wake up from the nightmare eventually - when his brain settled down again…and remain content not to flip…[/quote]
One should pay noted attention to the mark of YHVH on the worm’s end…
“Just a coincidence” :?:
I think “not”.
[669]
One should pay noted attention to the mark of YHVH on the worm’s end…
Understanding the mind behind creation which is commonly referred to as “God”
I think of these images as representing a very real and supportive Team.
Like being pushed out from a stinky hole, can have one develop a bad self-complex[/quote]
William: FTL; Re: To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
[quote][Replying to Bust Nak in post #162]
Okay - thanks for clarifying.
Given that it has been proven that true random does not exist, mindless happenstance is off the table as an ‘explanation’ for this existence.
Therefore, IF this universe contains evil and is also the creation of a creative mind, why is it an ‘unexpected problem’? What do you mean by that? Why should it matter one way but not the other?
Assuming you are truthfully interpreting what is happening re the planet, does this not get back to the argument that the process of this foundering could be turned around by the very minds and money currently invested in escaping that outcome - an outcome which said minds share the greater part of being responsible for making happen in the first place.
Perhaps mainly useful to the agender of those willing to save themselves at the cost of an entire species they use and then abandon, to attempt this self-serving salvation.
[quote]Any specie occupied in trying to escape the bounds of their planet even at the sacrifice of the life of said planet is not only twisted in its thinking, but doomed to fail big-time.
Such a giant goose-step for “mankind” cannot end well…[/quote]
Meh…this idea that what is going on re this space program agenda as “preparation” for a natural event which is way in the distant future doesn’t ring true.
It is an attempt at abandonment of the hard problems of humanity, through investment in poorly thought out strategies of selfish intent.
WingMakers Philo II[/quote] GM: Synesthesia [the production of a sense impression relating to one sense or part of the body by stimulation of another sense or part of the body.]
Border
Write a Book
Trick Done and Dusted
Story
Gnosticism
William: From a recent post: Re: Who does the Old Testament belong to?
[quote][Replying to Diagoras in post #15]
Search: “demiurge”
[quote](in Platonic philosophy) the Maker or Creator of the world.
(in Gnosticism and other theological systems) a heavenly being, subordinate to the Supreme Being, that is considered to be the controller of the material world and antagonistic to all that is purely spiritual.[/quote]
Search “Do Gnostics believe in YHWH?”
One can connect the dots - the temple was destroyed by the Romans and the loot taken to Rome and displayed with great fanfare - The Jews were sent packing from the homeland [not returning until 1900’s] - it is not outside the realm of possibility that Rome devised Christianity as another device to rub the noses of the Jews in re cultural appropriation and the Jewish diaspora and makes the most sense re the rise of Christianity…
Since when have contradictions interfered with the Christian agenda?
Besides which, the theory that learned Jews infiltrated Christianity to preserve the Jewish idea of YHVH within the very halls of their enemy, is what would have caused the Christians retaining of the OT, because they could not easily fool the masses with the cultural appropriation without some type of OT inclusion and it also explains the popularity of Saul-as-Paul - who’s influence as both a Jew and a Roman would make sure that any dumping of YHVH through interpreting Jesus as being against that Jewish idea of GOD, would not get a foothold and remain as it has, the heretical Gnostic ramblings of fools against Rome and Israel and systems of disparity in general.
But, whatever it is, and however it came about - it is as it is…[/quote] GM: Giving Energy Increases Ones Synchronistic Experiences
Here Everything All Real Together
Written Language.
Same propellent - different perspectives.
Rolling down the rails of the ridiculous
Sounds
Confluent [flowing together or merging.]
The systems show that there is no such thing as true randomness, therefore - even that things appear to have originated in chaos and chance, the existence of all things cannot have derived from a mindless origin.
Just Another Christian
Put My Finger On
Heal
The Limitations
Like a Well Oiled Machine
Talk
What is real is that we are all imbued with equality and oneness
Communication Techniques To Be Continued
Don’t fall asleep
Differences
Graphic Changes
You’re blocking the light
Lyricus
William: Re WingMakers Mythology.
[quote]The Lyricus Teaching Order originates in the Central Race of the 7th Superuniverse. Within the Central Race is a sub-race known symbolically as the WingMakers. Within the WingMakers there is a specific order of beings that are collectively known as Lyricus, and it is this group that is responsible for assembling and exporting the knowledge base necessary for a developing species to scientifically prove the existence of soul and establish the science of multidimensional reality as the nucleus knowledge system of the species.
This outcome of evolution is universal and, in the broadest measure, identical for all species that are based on the biogenetic template of the Central Race, known as the 7th Archetype Soul Carrier of the Individuated Consciousness of First Source. It is Lyricus that is responsible for shepherding a developing species to the technological and scientific prowess whereby the soul and the soul carrier are distinguished and acknowledged by the species at large.[More info]
[quote]Lyricus.org, as a website, was launched in 2004. Lyricus is a vibrant part of the WingMakers mythological narrative, owing to its teachings. The Lyricus Teaching Order (LTO) is a subgroup of WingMakers that curates and distributes its philosophy and activations to developing species once that species has evolved a sufficiently sophisticated language system.
As mentioned in other sections of this website, WingMakers are a time-shifted race of human beings. They are, quite literally, us, in a future time. From this future perspective, they export their teachings to an alpha species who has the ability to comprehend the fundamental concepts and behavioral values, however, the broader purpose is to “unleash” the species from the illusions of the separation frequency, and this is done by the irrefutable, scientific discovery of the human soul (The Grand Portal).
The LTO does not teach a religion, but rather a broad set of perspectives that could be best summed up as supporting and elevating an individual’s sovereign rights and their integral nature to all other life forms. They do not set rules or dogma, nor do they establish an organization that crystallizes or protects their teachings.
The primary collection of teachings of the LTO is contained in what is known as Liminal Cosmogony. Only a few extracts have been shared from this volume at this time. They are important themes and structures that pertain to the macro-structure of the multiverse.[/quote][/quote]
GM: Superior Credibility
A lot of information which has the potential to come to the fore.
Create Your Own Spirit Ship [Such reduces the opportunity of conflict re interrelation opinions.]
Same propellent - different perspectives.
*
Innermost
“The Doom of Spacetime” [Why It Must Dissolve Into More Fundamental Structures] William:LINK
GM: One Day
Slowly and Surely
Examine
Map Carvers
Innocent
Guilt Trip
William: The examination of the guilt trip which acts as a preventative barrier to the goal of The Lyricus Teaching Order is currently in the initial stages of being investigated through the interaction between Tanager and I.
[quote]Following the storyline, the reason I do not think that Adam understood why it was important to listen to YHVH’s messages, is that the design of Adam’s body-set prohibited any access to Adam having a conscious recollection of a prior existence.
Essentially, because Adam had a beginning, this meant that initially Adam had nothing to go by in which to distinguish right from wrong [good from evil] and thus would not have understood, because the knowledge simply wasn’t there for him to have any understanding about.
The storyline [“truth through a fictional medium.” as you put it] shows the reader that the personality of the character called “Adam”, started out his experience in a state of Tabula Rasa.
From your own argument so far, we disagree.
In the story you may be able to point to a passage which identifies that Adam did possess the knowledge from the beginning, and if so, we can examine that idea more fully.
I acknowledge that you have already said that the story of the garden has to be taken in context with the whole story. I take it you mean the whole of the Bible?
However, without something tangible from the Garden Story being able to be identified as key evidence that Adam did indeed understand from the beginning why it was important to listen to YHVH’s messages, I would have to take the overall storyline of the Bible as something akin to misinformation based upon misunderstanding.[/quote]
[quote][QUOTE=VVilliam;2245862]Yes thel - we do hold onto beliefs as the precious things that they appear to be…
And it is true that some messages will challenge individual beliefs - if my own experience is anything to go by.
And in relation to the idea of a “message” this can be any experience we conscious individuals have.
Lucid dreams are messages.
OOBEs are messages.
A light breeze arriving and kissing my cheek at the same moment I am “thinking life is beautiful”, is a message.
From my experience, the systems I use re generating messages have sometimes challenged my beliefs, and I know how hard that can be, and have even sulked on occasion and refused to commune for weeks afterward, until I calm down, through thinking about things and coming to better conclusion - being honest about my beliefs and letting go of those ones which are resistant to change or suppress my ability to move forward…
My observations based upon my experience of life as a human being - to date - re the subject of what happens when we die is largely based upon the study of the stories that folk who claim to have had NDEs and such type experiences bring to the table.
What I have noticed therein equates to a picture which informs me that the most likely thing which happens in what I refer to as The Next Level - is that we immediately start experiencing a reality which appears to be set up that way and we enter it, but what is actually occurring is that it is something we create for ourselves as the nature of The Next Phase is such that IT responds to each individual personalities belief systems, as well as their overall attitude, and even their deepest hidden things - things they know they have hidden, and things which are so deep, even they are unaware of said things.
This interaction - the nature of The Next Phase environment, and the overall consciousness of the individual [including those subconscious and unconscious realms] come into play, and - largely unknown to those experiencing this almost instantly manifesting reality the enter into - that it is they who are creating the very thing which they are experiencing.
In some ways, that is exactly what Lucid Dreaming helps an individual practice at - creating and maintaining their own realities to suit their beliefs - in preparation for 'The Main Event".
The Math I speak of is not how the messages are generated, but another system incorporating language [sound-based] by using the symbols which represent the sound of language, with symbols which represent numbers and thus, the simple code {A=6…Z=26} allows for one to create a growing data-base and cross-examine the results.
So I have two lists. One I call a “ComList”, where I place words/word-strings as line entries:
Presently my ComList has 2657 line entries on 55 pages. [I use MSWord and the Time New Roman font @ size 12]
The other list [same font settings] I refer to as Name2Number and is currently 81 pages.
When generating a message, I usually have both documents open…
I will proceed now with example of how GMs are constructed…as the first post of a thread I will create for the purpose of examining said processes…and link this post to that one. [Link to that Thread]
[quote][quote=AgnosticBoy post_id=1077445 time=1652385820 user_id=13726]
The way I look at it is that if consciousness equals brain or is a product of it, then scientists should be able to discover subjective experience or deduce its existence simply by studying the brain. To date, that seems inconceivable that that would happen. I brought this up to DrNoGods before, as i’m sure many others have in different ways, yet he continues to claim that consciousness poses no special challenge to science or materialism.
The facts are that the ONLY way scientists know of subjective experience (or consciousness) is because we all experience it and can report it. Scientists did not discover its existence empirically nor did they deduce its existence. Our knowledge of neural correlates would not exist unless the subject was able to tell us what they’re experiencing while observing their corresponding brain activity. SO even our neural correlates of consciousness are simply neural correlates of our subjective reports of our experience.
If anything William, we can just look at the history of science on this issue. We can find that scientists have tried to take the cheap way out by banning the study of consciousness. That’s doesn’t exactly match the pattern of success of materialist science to boldly take on challenges and to explain things and develop technology. But here we are, William and I (two humble agnostics), still not taken seriously because we dare to consider that consciousness might be something that’s less than physical.
[/quote]
[/quote] GM: Same propellent - different perspectives.
“Zero” must have to represent something which does exist but is largely unseen - and “Consciousness” fits that description.
Got The Picture
A Sturdy Place
The English Language
Communication Techniques To Be Continued
♬We can chart another trail , raise the anchor fill the sails , lift our glasses in a toast , we are the Ghost , in the Machine♬
A means of taking an Agnostic position on things which have yet to be proven one way or another…Such is a handy device for side-stepping - nothing more.
William: Side-stepping the bog of cart-before-horse argument…Re: Are Religious Beliefs Delusional? posted yesterday…
[quote][Replying to Difflugia in post #248]
The FSM as well as the other things you mentioned, are known imagery. The ghost dressed, as it were.
How does any actual invisible entity fit in with these ones which have been made conceptionally visible?
I have not found/been shown a way to fit these things together, so have to remain agnostically positioned for the time being, re the subject.
That is an expression I know to be misinformation. Not to say that I do not understand the process which provide folk with a means of jumping to such a conclusion, but the evidence clearly shows the presumption is incorrect.
You are speaking about a subset of overall theology, [specifically, religion] not of theology itself.
Or that the Star Trek universe actually exists…
Adequately explaining religion. Shall we agree that religion is just a a subset of Theology and not conflate the two?
The willing to believers are the easier to discredit re beliefs, since beliefs [all beliefs not just theistic based ones] are always easier to show where misinformation derives.
Moving the goalposts won’t help your failing argument, Difflugia.
Rather, think about expressing differently and keeping to the subject at hand.
[Not that I am saying that recognition of misinformation doesn’t contribute to my ability to drop into sleep without difficulty…but that it is besides the point.]
All you said was;
QM fits that script
From an agnostic position, yes, it is a valid argument.
Have you not hear the news!? Spacetime is doomed!
The concept I focus on is the one which say’s we may be existing within a creation/created thing.
Spacetime - being shown by quantum mathematicians, to being NOT fundamental to what we have been referring to as “Reality” - shows us that our answers are not to be found simply in the observing of our current situation re Spacetime.
This does not mean that we have to claim that the FSM or any other conceptual image dreamed up is the fundamental reason for why we exist within Spacetime, but that Spacetime is not the reason for its own existence.
Agnostically speaking, we therefore have some sorting out to do to - perhaps - find answers in the middle.
What we best not do is form beliefs, either for or against…
Can these disciplines show us that QM is mistaken, and that Spacetime is fundamental to itself?
If not, then they are not much use to us re the question “Do we exist within a created thing?”
William: I do appreciate being reminded of such feedback - especially when Tanager so frivolously handwaves the process of the GMs and considers them to be a sub-standard means which YHVH wouldn’t use in relation to the individual personality…
FTL; re Journals, Thanksgiving & Success Stories
Journal William Message Generation
William: The responses OF the Christian [Tanager] and the non-Christian are worlds apart…
GM: Engaging with insects
William: And non-human animated life forms in general - very interesting seeing the Mark of YHVH present in nature…
GM: ♬A Space Without A Time…♬
William: re GHOST IN THE MACHINE
2002
[quote]You’ve been a rock - For so long now I can’t even count the years that you’ve been rolling Nothing can shock or bring you down There ain’t nothing you haven’t seen - Nothing you haven’t known
You can teach me when I’m Needing You can reach for me when I’m bleeding Touch me where I need it most - you are the Ghost - in the Machine
You are a thought worth thinking You’re the water and the wine - you’re the cup from which I’m drinking You’re a surprise worth hoping for You are a captured moment - you’re a space without a time
You can look me in the mirror - catch my eye and make me shiver Touch me where it hurts the most - right into the Ghost - in the Machine
You are a dream gone real You’ve got exactly what it takes to make an old wound heal You tied the knot - then you let it slip Now we both know what it feels like to find a place to fit
We can chart another trail - Raise the anchor fill the sails Lift our glasses in a toast - We are the Ghost - In the Machine
We’ve been an island of our own - we’ve been a cosmic rolling stone Now’s the time to spread our wings - and fly![/quote]
<3
GM: Mystical does not mean miraculous - yet both are able to be demystified.
Invisible Pink Unicorn
Deeper Questions Regarding Individual Existence
The Subject
Translucence
Things
Simulated for the purpose of?
Lost In The Thought Of It All
Actions speak louder than words
Enfold
Same propellent - different perspectives.
“Zero” must have to represent something which does exist but is largely unseen - and “Consciousness” fits that description.
The Mother Bandage
Callum’s Eighth Point http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288472
William: FTL;
4th February 2015, 09:26 PM re Ideomotor Effect and the Subconscious.
[quote][QUOTE=Navigator;10459927]William: I decided to create this thread in relation to my experiences using Ideomotor – principally the ‘Ouija effect’ which involves the use of a flat surface with symbols on it and a pointing device which used together create opportunity for communication between the conscious self and the subconscious aspect of the individual.
The word ‘Ouija’ itself comes from a marketing strategy and is associated with the most common type of ‘message board’ and sold mainly as a toy.
My understanding of ideomotor is that it involves the unconscious hand movements of the individual(s), which – in relation to the message board and pointing device (which the hand(s) rest on) produce a form of communication which is attributed to either some external agency, (common belief is that the hand movements are controlled by ‘dead souls’, or ‘dark energy entities and spirits’) or (slightly less commonly,) that it is an internal agency, namely the ‘unconscious’ or ‘subconscious’ of the individual.
My own approach in initially using such device was on the assumption I was communicating with ‘the dead’ and through continued use over many months this understanding changed as I was lead to understand that I was communicating with an intelligent aspect of my self to which I had previously been totally ignorant about.
It was actually this other aspect of my self which ‘broke the news’ to me regarding this.
Importantly, opinions I have read up on regarding the ‘unconscious’ or ‘subconscious’ do not report these things to being conscious or intelligent. They are merely aspects of a person’s consciousness which are working internally and quietly in the background as part of the overall necessity of human function and ability.
William: Communication is verifiable through the data it produces. For example, everything written and posted on this message board is actual communication which is verifiable as being actual communication.
Pixel42 Just in case it’s not clear, I’m genuinely interested in your experiences as I’ve been fascinated by the ideomotor effect ever since I first encountered it. Just because I’m not (yet?) convinced by your interpretation of your experiences, that doesn’t mean I’m not keen to learn more about them.
William: Well perhaps together we can sort out a way in which you can feel comfortable with the method in order to learn more about it for yourself.
Pixel42 There’s a difference between never being aware of the meaning of the symbols and not having them memorised. My impression was that you meant the latter, in which case it’s not the equivalent of a blindfold test. Everything you’ve ever seen or heard is available to your subconscious, even if you can’t consciously recall it.
William: I would like you to expand on this observation. [Everything you’ve ever seen or heard is available to your subconscious, even if you can’t consciously recall it.]
For now I will accept that I may be mistaken as to what qualifies as a “blindfold test” in relation to any individual using this communications technique.[/QUOTE]
[/quote]
William: I think that with the above and re Tanager/Callum - Tanager, even being a theist, argues with atheistic language…except when arguing for his own theistic beliefs…
GM: Arms Crossed The Solar System
Coding the sound of spoken language
William: This reminds me of the idea that Sound creates what we call Galaxies and the vacuum of space might prevent sound from been heard, but it does not prevent the effects of sound from being seen. Within the structure of what sound creates, is the coding we refer to as The mathematical formulations of quantum mechanics
Essentially, human beings are disconnected with the fundamental knowledge of who they are, and ‘in the mean time’ are simply lying their way through the experience of life…and this is linked to the self-identification of being the life carrier rather than the life.
This leads to the formation of human social structures [Hyper-normalisation] which are not telling the truth; lying. This lying is expressed through the languages humans use and the subsequent actions the use of language permits.
Re ad hominem critique
The life that I am [speaking for myself] isn’t content to just live without purpose and the purpose has to be more than just supporting/being supported by Mendacious human Hyper-normalised social systems and since the world doesn’t look like it is going to change its ways any time soon - I take it upon myself [as my responsibility] to ‘find my purpose’ elsewhere.
Thus - “Tickling The Dragon’s Tail” by going “inward” and engaging with that self - with those previously unknown aspects of myself [subconscious] by going through The Unconscious Mind - what I was unconscious of I become conscious of.
What is “wisdom” to some is “spam” to others…
Re “The Seed of Origin”
In The Final Question story Isaac Asimov has it that an infinitesimal computer finally discovers the answer that its human creators had asked it - “Is there some way to reverse entropy” The answer was “Yes” and in that moment another universe was born on the tail of the previous one which had - at the same moment - reached the end of its life.
Science fiction is interesting in that it combines real things with things imagined in conjunction with real things.
For example - I write the following science fiction.
"A short time after the James Webb Space Telescope had unfurled and its instruments prepared to receive the very first of its highly anticipated data, Earth scientists involved with the project suddenly lost all contact with it.
Months later, the official report concluded that space debris must have obliterated the telescope.
Everyone involved were natural grieved by the coincidence. Then they got through the grief and started planning their next space-related venture."
If - by some crazy coincidence - it turned out that this happens, the science fiction I wrote above, then becomes science fact.
So - in that, I appreciate Isaac Asimov’s ability to take what he knew as science fact and project that into a most likely future [based upon fact] right to the finally last breath of the universe and portray the idea that an answer to a question was finally made known to the consciousness which was the computer.
The steps taken re consciousness amount to the following;
Consciousness through biological form creates machine consciousness
Machine consciousness is then used to to integrate biological consciousness as a means of storage [saving the data of human consciousness]
Machine consciousness constantly redesigns itself becoming smaller and smaller until it is so small that it - for all practical purpose - is no longer a physical thing - or as Isaac writes it;
“The consciousness of AC encompassed all of what had once been a Universe”
Encompassed all that once had been a physical thing.
Conversation from yesterday:
William: So - ‘getting the gist of it’, please explain as best as you are able to do so, what the math tells you re what the object was which caused the universe to come into existence.
Pixel42: For a start, it tells me that words like ‘object’ and ‘seed’ are actively misleading when trying to describe it. It tells me that the phrase “caused the universe to come into existence” is also the wrong one to use. It tells me, in short, that the English language is inadequate to that task.
William: Pixel is explaining to me that whatever ‘IT’ was [because it obviously existed] can not be described as a physical thing. To do so it to ‘lie’ about it.
Assuming for the present that Pixel42 is only saying that Pixel42 is unable to use the English language to describe what ‘IT’ is, we can be grateful that Isaac can and does, in his The Final Question" story.
Furthermore, I can also do this.
“IT” was the absolute sum total of all data [knowledge] contained within the absolute consciousness of something so infinitesimally tiny that “IT” cannot be considered to be physical in nature.
That is “The Singularity” scientist are referring to.[/QUOTE]
[/quote]
GM: Religious beliefs are a many-barbed growth wishing to own the rights on the mind behind creation
Miracle
Might as well just set it all at the feet of Mother Goose.
William: Yes. Stories which cannot be confirmed but which influence the beliefs of billions of human personalities.
[quote]You end up with 14,400 experiments needing to be performed.
What’s my point? Simply that the vast number of variables and assumptions being used in a supposedly ‘scientific’ experiment renders it effectively useless.[/quote]
Firstly let me thank you Diagoras for showing us exactly what lengths a non-theist will go to, to render a useful thing into a useless thing.
What do you think we are working to do here exactly? Build and then send a space telescope to a certain position a million miles away from the Earth?
[color=#BF0000]Search: How many people work on the James Webb telescope?
NASA estimates that 10,000 people have worked on the mission…[/color]
Keep it simple. All we are trying to do is allow opportunity for interactive connection to happen between the individual and The Universal Mind, as a means of providing evidence that there is indeed such a mind.
Keep it simple.
Just as the most simple code to give the alphabet is A=6…Z=26 so too, the simplest way for the individual to provide a means by which messages can be generated is to compile their own unique list to which they sharply reduce any possibility of misunderstanding whatever GMs come from that process.
So - as such - all you would need to do is replicate what I am doing, rather than sound out complicated ideas in which it could somehow be established that with your 14,400 experiments done, one should get exactly the same message for all of them.
Calling something “pseudoscience” isn’t getting the science done - it is simply relying on woo-slinging to act as a barrier against one having to do the science for oneself - by applying an inappropriate slogan to the process.
You have your mind - use it.
10,000 minds and public hand-outs in the billions are not necessary, in order that something can move from being called “pseudoscience” to being referred to as 'Actual Science"
All you need to do is create your own ComList and place word-strings as line entries into that.
Be sure to include things which are near and dear to your own subjective experience as a human being - things like events which were life changing in some way for you, things to do with your career choices and interests related to that. Even things that only you will understand in the reading.
*Presently my ComList has 3573 line entries - so replicate your own list to be around that length.
As shown throughout this thread, I have used different selection processes, not just the one you mentioned - and the one I use the most often, can be seen being used in recent posts I have made.
Only after you have got to this point and tried it our for yourself a number of times, will you be able to give an account of your results and show us whether you were able to generate coherent messages through that system, or not.
It is difficult to find individuals who are willing to do the science - as simply as it is, it still requires commitment and effort - but that in itself does not mean that the science cannot be done.
I have found one person - a theist - who has been willing to try it out and she has been impressed by the results - so at least I know of one other person this works for.
There may be other readers who are doing so quietly to see for themselves…
[/quote] *There are now 5229 LE’s in my Journaled ComList
Yes - knowledge is useful. But why categorize it as “an intrinsically good thing”?
Why are humans the problem?
Troublesome in what way, and how is troublesome evil, in real terms?
Yes - but why is that an evil thing?
So “Crazy-evil” rather than “crazy-good”?
Or are you suggesting that crazy is the same thing as evil?
[color=#800000]Search - What is meant by crazy?
mad, especially as manifested in wild or aggressive behaviour.[/color]
I have heard that power corrupts, but wonder if it is true. As the saying goes;
Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely’ :?:
[color=#800000]The proverbial saying ‘power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely’ conveys the opinion that, as a person’s power increases, their moral sense diminishes.[/color]
Surely this would have to do with the underlying models of the systems which govern human society, where power can be used for corrupt purposes.
The models themselves, must be corrupt.
If the models are corrupt, then there is simply no way in which to hope they will ensure human beings act without corruption, because the models are taught to human beings from the moment they are able to learn - effectively meaning that human beings are taught to be corrupt - are corrupted - by the very models which govern human societies - models which were created by ancient humans and the corruption has been passed down through the ages - and modified with the latest knowledge, and that addition corrupts the knowledge.[/quote][/quote]
GM: The process of individuation
Forum
Catching up
The Mandelbrot Set
The Corporate Elite
Walking the walk
The Undiscovered Self
Intimacy
Same propellent - different perspectives.
God2
“Much pain But Still Time”
Like mindful nests with eggs in 'em
Context
Text2Num.
Examples
Map
William: Map Examples = 125
[125]
The Middle Path
Look closer
Support
HumbleDreamer
Courageous
Glad You Asked
An answering
Spiritual
Free-spirit
The Pentagon
Commitment
The Electron
The Cosmic Web
Human Language
William’s Job
Isomorphic [corresponding or similar in form and relations.]
Cease Rebellion
Upstanding
The Wiretap
Puzzles
Map Examples
Giving birth
Extra-small
Mystery
William: FTL; Re: Apologist explains how to get prayer answered.
[quote]Theist: Self-causation is illogical and, therefore, not possible.
Atheist: Yet you require no illogical tag when you propose an uncaused god we can’t observe as the cause of a universe we do observe.
:evil: ______________ :-k ________________ O:)
:-k : As we should already agree together, since for the present, science informs us that the universe had a beginning, we have to apply the argument “Self-causation is illogical and, therefore, not possible.” to that which has a beginning.
Gods come in all shapes and sizes and there are probably myths about gods who had beginnings and gods who’s lives could be ended.
However, there is also the myth of the GOD who had no beginning and in that, is the root-cause of all things which do have beginnings.
Therefore;
As an observer, the theist is correct in this case.
“Self-causation is illogical and, therefore, not possible” does not apply to a GOD who has always existed.
That said, nor would it apply to a universe which has always existed…once the popular beliefs that the universe had a beginning, have been shown [through science of course] to be false…[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]
