Information Warfare Education, Propaganda, and How to Tell the Difference

This feels like a misrepresentation of views that I have spent multiple hours trying to unpack for you in this space.

“So what would you call the “but zer/zim’s feelings might get hurt” sole justification for state employees to on the down-low “teach” 8 and younger kids about gender fluidity?”

It’s simply teaching kids, “these people exist, you should be kind to people you may see as different from you.” No one is teaching kids sex positions.

And it’s hardly a “sole reason”. I also mentioned the fact that preliminary sexual education is what helps prevent things like “grooming” and “pedophilia”, helps develop more healthy empathy and perspective taking, helps curtail bullying, and better prepares children for the onset of puberty and the explicit images on the internet, which the average child is now being exposed to at just 9 years old. Add to that the fact that 27% of gays knew their preferences before they turned 10 years old, and the traditional messaging of “men love women, and women love men, and those are the only acceptable options” creates suffering for these individuals.

Unless you also support adding some “don’t say ‘mom and dad’, or any gender pronouns at all” laws to the books?

I could ask the same question: what would you call the “but teaching kids that gay people exist will result in grooming and pedophilia” sole justification for restricting speech and education in the classroom? I’m sure you’d say that was a bad faith question.

“Feelings are interior quadrant and isn’t gender fluidity by definition detached from physical reality? Would that make it 100% interior quadrant?”

Yes and no. The orientation itself is interior quadrant, while “the fact that these people exist” is objective UR and LR truth. It’s 1 out of 20 people, in fact!

And I think there are many people out there for whom this simple fact of existence makes them uncomfortable — just like desegregation made them uncomfortable just a couple decades ago.

You know, like religion, which is also entirely interior-focused. And yet we have laws that ensure the free practice of religion, without placing limits on what kinds of religion can be practiced. Any time we reference “Christians” as a group in political discussions, and the sorts of liberties we want to see extended to them, it’s no different than referencing “gays”. (Actually it’s not quite the same — there is far more objective data telling us that gay people are real, than there is data telling us that these belief-based realities are real.)

Or mental handicaps. Purely an “interior” problem, right? But a group we nonetheless find a way to systemically support nonetheless?

I want our kids to know that different types of people exist, and none of them should be pushed into our shadows — especially when those shadows are being imposed from the top-down by the state. I want my daughter to be able to talk freely to her best friend, who happens to have two moms. And I want her best friend to never feel shamed, explicitly or subtly, by her educational institution.

And enforcing “don’t say gay” laws in our schools, would be an effort to deliberately push her own family into the shadows. “We’re not allowed to talk about your family, but we can talk about everyone else’s.”

60 years ago, “parents rights” would mean not allowing black students into white schools. But racism is purely interior, right?

Question: do you feel like you are doing your best to actually understand the progressive point of view, as you are insisting I refuse to do?

Or are you simply honing in in the small part of my argument you want to disagree with, and ignoring everything else? Seems to be our regular dance :wink:

I will once again state the obvious compromise — we agree not to teach sexually explicit biological realities to kids, but continue to teach inclusivity, compassion, and kindness to different types of people, including a basic acknowledgement that these people exist.

We aren’t birds so unless you are also going to sing in a tree every sunrise and sunset, I don’t see the point.

In 90% of the world - YES. for the vast majority of the world, there was before colonialization and after colonialization. This coincided exactly with pre-Christian and Christian eras in the vast majority of the planet’s population.
When we look at pre-colonial societies globally, monogamy in most cultures just wasn’t a “thing”. That’s just historical fact.

To re-interject a sub-thread here in the land of disinformation and education.

Maybe it wasn’t the much glorified Qanon Conspiracy to over throw Democracy after all.

Seems the FBI did in fact organize, motivate and coordinate the cognitive sack of hammers gang, also known as the Right Wing White Nationalist Extremist Qanon Militia and Gov Witmer Kidnapping Plot, in order for the FBI to have a precisely time pre-election plot to foil immediately before the elections. Wow - what a coincidence and a surprise. No one on the Right thought this might be the case…

" Defense attorneys had argued—successfully, it would appear—that their clients were entrapped by the FBI; at least a dozen FBI confidential human sources and undercover agents working out of numerous FBI field offices were in the plot."

"A roster of FBI agents and experts took the stand during the three-week trial, which was temporarily delayed due to one participant’s COVID diagnosis; Dan Chappel, the lead informant and government’s star witness known as “Big Dan,” explained how he brought the makeshift group of alleged “militia” members together after he was hired by the FBI in March 2020. Chappel created encrypted chat groups and organized excursions for field training and surveillance of Whitmer’s cottage. (He, along with other FBI informants, posed as leaders of two “militia” groups, at least one of which was created by the FBI.)

For his work over a six-month period, Chappel, a truck driver for a U.S. Postal Service subcontractor, was compensated at least $60,000 by the FBI in cash and gifts such as a new laptop, tires, and a smart watch."

And what’s hilarious is “Big Dan” was a witness for the Swamp. LOL

https://amgreatness.com/2022/04/08/two-acquitted-in-whitmer-case-fbi-misconduct-central/

Did you know what you are calling “gender fluidity” — the idea that sexual preferences and gender expressions exist as a continuum, not as a simple binary — can also be found throughout the animal kingdom? In fact it may be even more common than the number of species who practice exclusive monogamy in your example.

See, for example, Evolution’s Rainbow:

https://www.amazon.com/Evolutions-Rainbow-Diversity-Gender-Sexuality/dp/0520260120/ref=nodl_

The fact that we can objectively see this in nature all throughout the animal kingdom means no, by definition, this is not “detached from physical reality”.

Besides, none of these quadrants are EVER “detached” from each other.

Some men, including myself have advanced far, far beyond the prophets of the Old Testament n regard to “spreading seed”.

There is far far more to sexual expression and nontraditional relationships than merely “spreading seed”.
Included in nontraditional family relationships are things that are apparently completely unimaginable to the Christian mind. Things like caring for a community and children that are not of one’s own “seed” without requiring sex or “seeding” the mother with one’s own “seed” in a kind of transaction.

But yeah, I guess I shouldn’t expect more than a kindergarten mindset in this discussion.

Oh, this is a kindergarten discussion? I guess that means we have to pretend gay people don’t exist :joy:

No body said they were mythical Rainbow Unicorns, of course they exist. It’s just the Birthing and Impregnating Parents in Florida don’t seem to want state educators promoting mythical Rainbow Unicorn-ality to their 8 year olds.

And to hit your 1 out of 20 number you had to include all the “Allies” - the L’s, the G’s, the B’s, the Q’s, the I’s, the A’s, the +'s, and yes the 0.3% T’s.

Great news! Liberal Democracy with Separation of Powers is enjoyed by ALL! Elections are coming up. Vote your morals or values or desires or pocket books or religious or kinks or diets or energies or whatever you want.

It’s obviously the mainstream conservative stance here in Colorado, because they are the group who dismantled the program that was successfully reducing abortions, and then abortions increased again as a result.

Those pesky conservatives, making more women get abortions!

I do understand the “no true Scotsman” argument, though.

Wait, you said it wasn’t a myth, and it was a myth, all in the same breath. No wonder this is so confusing!

60 years ago parents didn’t want educators to promote mythical blackness to their 8 year olds either. History repeats.

What point is it you are trying to make here?

5.6% of the population have identities outside of the traditional “straight man, straight woman” binary. The vast majority of whom are, yes, gay or lesbian or bisexual. These are not subjective belief systems, like Christianity for example. We choose our religious beliefs. We do not choose who we are attracted to.

And to enforce a system that purposely denies that these people exist, is to support a system that is pushing natural human behavior into the shadow.

You’ve got some deep set anger towards Christianity. It shows mi amigo.

Helping to make sure kids in Africa are fed and have an opportunity to go to college, helping your nieces and nephews grow and develop, mentoring and finding internships for kids you’ve never met before, and hiring every single neighbor kid asks for work whether I need what they’re offering or not?

Leftists want to help by expanding scope of government through “mandating contribution”. Conservatives “just do it” today, right now, with their time, talent and treasure. If I didn’t know you better Ray, I might think you just a prickly fellow.

It’s not anger - it’s recognition that those men lived 4,000 years ago and society (at leas the society I participate in) is far advanced beyond them.

The anger is yours, brother - 100%.

What the Christian Churches did during globalization is historical fact. I’m not agry about it, just like I’m not angry when I talk about the genocide of the Jews in nazi germany.

That’s only if you are thin skinned. I’m not going to completely re-invent history because historical facts bother you.

@FermentedAgave
Its possible that you might “just not know”, though I doubt it.
Here is summary. If you disagree with the facts, wiki allows you to edit it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_indigenous_peoples

Here’s a radical idea.

If a group of people are considered a “protected class”, then we have a civic obligation to educate our children about their existence, and why they needed protections in the first place.

Since gays are in fact considered a protected class, the “don’t say gay” laws are in clear violation of our constitutional rights.

Seems about as simple as it gets.

Yes, I learned all about how men should spread their seed when I was 5 years old and read the Bible in church.
There was also something in there about God hated a City of Gay men … who were not actually gay because they lusted after women, lol.
So understandably Christians are confused.

Funny thing is that The Bible brings all these subjects up in a very confusing and frankly uninformed way (because it was written 4,000 years ago). So kids read the Bible and are just all kinds of confused because no one explains it to them.

Just remember the Bible was ahead of its time in certain ways.

After all, the only thing close to a mention of “abortion” in the Bible is a recipe for a homemade abortificant, as well as a couple passages making it explicit that a fetus should be considered “property” and not “life”.

Also the whole “life begins at first breath”, which was the predominant metaphysical view before abortion was made into a political culture war issue in the late 70s/early 80s.

With your Dingle-berry level trolling of me, I would have thought you would have retained that I’m part Native American. And yes, it really really sucked for my great great grandparents and their ancestors. Maybe it sucked more for my Native American ancestors, or maybe the Irish, or the Jewish, or maybe I’m from Royalty!

What I’m fairly certain of, is none sat around worrying about a 5 year old hurting an adult’s feelings when the kid was confused why Lil Ray’s Daddy dressed up as a Mommy on Wednesday.

Old or New Testament?

Maybe in some ways, but remember during this period there were also sex temples and sexual rites. It was all just part of worshiping that particular God or Goddess in that particular time of year.

So you are aware of the atrocities committed in the name of the Church. Good - because it seemed you were accusing me that I was the one who was angry for mentioning it.

Funny how we just established that you, were really the angry one.

Call it trolling or whatever - fact is that it’s your anger, not mine.