1557 is for sure about culture wars. I am actually understanding why the Left is so crazy. It’s like you cant reason in our culture now, there just has to be a counter crazy to fight the crazy. At least all of this will keep lawyers working, since they will have to debate the meaning of OR 
:dizzy:
OR maybe not. 
Hopefully Biden/Garland sic the DOJ on FL so this one gets settled really quickly at the SCOTUS level. Finito as the Italians say. Fed vs State immediately goes to front of the line for SCOTUS.
It’s a historic opportunity for Jackson to get her feet wet.
What difference will this make in people’s lives either way SCOTUS decides?
Seems like a big waste of time to be honest, even to discuss it.
Public education has devolved so badly the past 20 years I see it as just free daycare for kids aged 5-18.
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In looking at the evolutionary history of mating systems, the book presents non-monogamous coupling and polyamory not as “kinky” for their time, but as normative, and still normative for some societies today, without causing total collapse of those cultures. And it examines technological-economic factors, as well as social and religious control factors, that led the West to “select” for monogamous M-F marriage, starting primarily in the agrarian period (a period which seems to be shouldering a lot of the ‘blame’ for many ills in some of the new histories that are coming out). Of course the “make love, not war” bonobos are mentioned in the context of their being our nearest ape relatives in the evolutionary chain; we share more DNA with them than with the fighting, aggressive chimps humans are most often compared to. The book is dense, but also a lot of fun, and funny! to read.
Oh yes, of course. For example, even in monogamous relationships, having sex in the same common room as other people or outdoors in nature was / is just a necessity of reproduction for 90% of humans in history. Now we call them orgies and exhibitionism, lol. That’s just the tip of the needle on top of the iceberg.
I use “kink” as a purely modern term for anything an individual enjoys, including nonsexual activities that modern society might project shame upon.
Threat of public shame creates fear and fear turns to misdirected anger and misdirected anger turns into 90% of these problems we discuss in here.
I would venture to say that 90% of humanity’s problems in the 21st century could disappear overnight if the entire population knew they could express themselves genuinely without fear of public shame.
Thanks @FermentedAgave Yes, I will share this with you. Connect the dots from all points of view … find the nexus where they all intersect there is the wisdom … be mindful that we will never learn anything if we’re convinced we already know everything. Peace
Yes. Think of all the movies you’ve seen of tepee culture among American Indians, for example, not so long ago even, when the parents are sexing in the same tepee with children and grandparents (not always asleep). I don’t think those people were damaged by that, so no shame or guilt because that was the norm within that particular context of time and culture.
We are confused as a society about sexuality in general. Which is why I think learning more about our history and our ancestors’ behavior helps to open our minds and expand our knowledge, so that the conventions we do select for are informed choices.
I don’t know; I can think of a few public figures who seem immune to any shaming, who have created quite a few problems…
Ok. I’ve been warned! 
Likely makes little difference except for the Rainbow Activist that will invariably insist on “crossing the line”. If people actually read the 1557, the educators can (if I’m reading right) discuss anything a parent approves to be discussed with their very young children.
Sadly I have to agree that at lower income school districts they are more day care-ish than education on what most would want their kids to learn.
Upper income families already have School Choice. They either move to a good school district or private schools to avoid this shift from education to nanny statism. It’s not racially based, unless you consider that minorities are the very first to “get out” as fast as they can.
Don’t we focus here visioning the Integral noosphere, not reality of our legal, education, and governmental systems?
Reality is we take a 200,000 ft meta view talking about how it shouldn’t be the way it is and if magic wanded it my way it would be so much better. Action planning isn’t the Forte of Integralism.
I hope it the DOJ doesn’t bother. If Florida wants to hurt its education system, let it. It’s all so sad and silly. Evolution can’t be stopped. I am not out of optimism; it’s more where do you channel energy. What I am learning is it’s time for descension. Time to move down and expand the width. We can’t support our higher levels yet.
I do think we are agreeing, in the end we are finding that reason is not working. FL1557, is literally written as nonsense. It’s actually the point, just throw nonsense out to cause confusion. It’s about chaos.
Chaos requires deep descension, down to the dark reaches of our development, down past reason, past tradition, past power, down to the darkest corners of our psyche development. I think it’s calling us to connect to the space where all sense of community is gone. Only communion is left. I have never been more optimistic.
BINGO! Integralism is focused on the elite 1-3% in cognitive ability (per fermented/Corey thread). We aren’t fully Fuedal so even the experts can’t Transcend by Decree. Takes buy in, votes, lawful orderly change to the existing governance models (Constitution, Federal/State Laws, etc).
I don’t agree on FL 1557, but then I’ve read all 7 pages . It’s a relatively simple document thats very specific.
We are viewing from very different frames. Think this was referred to in the Bible as the Tower of Babel, when God smote the peoples each with an incomprehensible language. The Left frame talking past the Right frame and vice versa might not be so new at all.
No you have be welcomed
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That’s it? That’s all ya got?
I thought that was the lead up? Lol
Disinformation out of Saudi Arabia? Yikes. I guess it’s good they aren’t ghosting him any more???
Another way is a micro view. Might I say “conservative” view, which is to make sure your own family are educated to learn how to educate themselves and not rely on others to make large projects to save them. The flip the script back to “hippy dippy rainbow activists” and change the meaning of family to mean “whoever I choose to care about”.
What you get are hippy dippy rainbow activist communities not waiting for some large Integral Government project to be funded, but instead reforming and redefining all aspects of how they want to live their lives from the bottom up. Meanwhile Bubba in Florida is going to defund his own school district where his five kids don’t learn how to use a condom and so in a few years he has two pregnant teenage daughters.
You clearly don’t spend much time having to argue legal language gibberish with government officials It’s my bloody life.
I read the damn 7 pages
“Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.”
Here is the mess. What does this mean? This is gibberish. The word OR is wrong here. It sets up confusion. If they would have said “UNLESS it is a manner that is age appropriate according to standards”, then YES, I would agree that this is fine, assuming the standards are sane. Actually it is amazing to me that Florida does not have this in place. I can’t walk into my daughters school without being handed book of parental rights.
This is why the Woke matter now. They descended to rework amber, and we are setting standards for how SO and GI are discussed. Evolution baby, yeah! The next step is to rework orange.
This bill is a hot mess, it’s going to cost Florida lots of money, taken out of their education and for what…poor grammar? If, instead of calling LGBTQ community groomers, they would have worked with them my guess is this grammatical error would have been caught. Instead the Woke army will also use this…let’s all remember the heterosexuality is a SO and cis gender is a GI, they will fight this and they are creative, they will comb through the curriculum, find every hetero and gender normative thing they can find and SUE SUE SUE. I do wonder if gender identified bathrooms are instructive? I guess we will find out…Potty break time, boys to the left, girls to the right…uh oh, daddy and papa were not informed, call the lawyers. Let’s let the Supreme Court decide how to interpret OR.
This will all be such a waste of money…Do you think DeSantis gets what’s coming for him? Maybe, it’s the point. You say that conservatives don’t see government as a vehicle for improving the quality of life, just a vehicle for winning elections and gaining power for power’s sake. If that’s the case then it’s working.
This is where we have to descend to Red, expand the consciousness on power for power’s sake. This is what I am seeing is the evolutionary draw down, not regression, descension. This is helping me to surrender to it all!
It’s easier to remember than the tens of thousands of words typed here by the ideological devotees. Contemplation on the small sentence carries volumes of understanding …
You are still welcomed and loved remember that too @FermentedAgave ~ Peace
I think I see your points, maybe. It does put the burden of proof regarding just what is age appropriate in order to have the conversations, instead of literally everything being free game by the Woke until parents prove otherwise. It’s decisive flip the script move by the elected officials in FL to put onus on the LGBTQIA+ Woke community to justify their actions.
I think this is a start towards awareness and transparency, which can only be good for society. You claim the Woke through their adherents and allies within the teaching profession ARE in fact conspiring to re-architect, modify, re-imagine “in their image” our society through the institution of grade school and through educating very young children. The transparency is refreshing and gets past the psuedo noble oppression/victimhood justifications and to the real agenda - the Woke/LGBTQIA+ are in fact waging a culture war on our society.
These are very valid concerns, other than the legal expense argument. FL has a $21B (as far as I can tell) education budget so a few $M’s isn’t material.
The potty break time example is very valid (I think, but not a lawyer), but would point out that our system of governance isn’t a simplistic or gross either/or proposition.
If we use the US Attorney General and FBI’s recent examples, they have a large amount of discretion on what they “enforce”. I’m sure the FL AG/state police as well as local police have similar discretion.
And let’s say this one goes to the Supreme Court, which I think will happen very quickly. SCOTUS can easily take a more subtle approach and strike or require rewriting of parts to make it more coherent, legally proper,… Or they could completely invalidate or completely support.
And you are absolutely correct that the Woke/LGBTQIA+ are going to “come after” Florida - they already are. A Trans Disney heir and high school teacher (I think in California) has donated $250,000 and his Mom another $500,000 to the “fight” through an LGBTQIA+ PAC.
Framing here is very judgmental, almost with a religious fanaticism , and also incorrect. But is the baseline to frame set the Left usually starts with. Of course conservatives see government as a vehicle for improving quality of like. Claiming otherwise is similar to the accusations that “conservatives aren’t caring” and the “they’re trying to dominate me”. Conservatives just don’t agree that an LGBTQIA++ Woke “elite” running their $21B education budget in order to “indoctrinate” very small children in order to implement their LGBTQIA+ vision as as the “improvement” they want to see. .
BTW, infiltrating and hijacking governmental institutions as a strategy to shape society is well documented by every Marxist “activist” throughout history. Marcuse is considered to have laid out the modern “blue print” on how to do this. DoT Sec Buttigeig’s dad was the preeminent scholar on the Italian Marxist Gramsci who laid out the Italian “plan” in first half 20th century. I’m not saying you’re a Marxist but this approach is the definition of Identity Marxism.
I love how you view this - descension, not regression. This is a very dynamic view that we don’t see enough in integral circles - descend in order to Transform and Include.
This reminds me of the Priest or Karate master who’s mission is teaching inner city youth boxing, self control, and how to step outside your circumstances in order to give the youth perhaps the greatest gift he could give them - the opportunity for self determination.
I’m quite attached to my dots and what those dots incorporated into the “Great Averaging”.
@FermentedAgave
Descending will neither transform nor include. It’s just goes to a lower level. It separates. Amber cannot transform and include green lol.
What @Michelle has pointed out is what we all know - the Trump Republican party is not the best nor the brightest. It’s the benchwarmers to be honest. The primary trait needed now in the Republican party is loyalty to Trump and fear
We see in the invasion of Ukraine the end result of fielding an army of benchwarmers whose primary qualification is loyalty and fear.