Hi Karen
I agreed with Ryan that we would put out our email addresses and ask everybody who wants to participate to send us their email addresses so that we can send out reminders.
Mine is heidi56@me.com.
I guess we are planning for next Saturday at the same time, but we might also send out another Doodle, Ryan will set up an extra thread for the zoom meetings.
Think I got confused with the ā5pm UTC +1 (Central Europe)ā, I took that to be 5pm UTC which is now ish.
Sent myemail anyway Heidi.
Thank you for your response! You said the key word, ārelationship!ā The entire world is one big relationship that exists in different states and structures. What is our edge and how does it relate to the whole of things and the individuals we encounter is a question we must ask and reflect upon regularly.
Obviously, that kind of question is a second tier thing. Earlier stages of interpretation havenāt developed their understanding of relationships to more expansive contexts and tend to think itās silly to ask such a question and that focusing on fulfilling individual or group desires and needs is what matters even though itās all part of it. The universe keeps expanding, inside and out!
One important element of growth that many tend to be uncomfortable with is shadow content. āCleaning upā is very important if we are going to ābuild bridges.ā Iāve done shadow work for many years and will often reach out to āthe otherā despite them projection their shadow material on to me. This is not an easy thing to do but Iāve had an opportunity to see how powerful it is when āIā and āotherā move beyond our individual projections and build the ābridge of relationship.ā
Peace & love,
Brian
Hi guys, lets try again to meet on Zoom: next Sunday February 3rd at 8pm CET, 2 pm Eastern time, 7pm UK.
If you send us the email, you will get a reminder, otherwise put it down in your calendar and come in here:https://zoom.us/j/8640405576
Relationship indeed, gets pretty dam complex :), I find it gets even more so around the emotions and intimate ways of relating, or perhaps Iām particularly inspired by the threadās theme. Knowing how you can and canāt form healthy relationships with various people. Edge, shadow as you say, and I would also add to that, sometimes the flip side to shadow talk I see which is just healthy boundaries or push back against any dysfunction no matter the stage, is a hard thing to juggle.
Lately Iām definitely struggling with my own edge, frustrated often by green and in dire need of someone holding my more complex perceptionsl. An example is very strong boundaries and the primal. Green does much to get in touch with the body and feelings, but it seems to focus on inner child and reconnecting with this, being kind of maternal in having everyone get along and be equal, but itās not so great at protecting or taking a stand. With the relativism rife at green, whittling away a strong stance on anything objective there seems to be for them, less reason to be annoyed as truth and depth just arenāt cared about to the degree, but also this real blurring of safety/ calling out pathology as oneās own project shadow. Anything that ruffles feathers or calls out pathology, which would say this is higher and this is lower, just seems to be a no manās land at green. Greens can grock in a peak state but Iām often frustrated by the lack of being able to deal with laying powerful boundaries, dealing with pathology, even evil at times I dare say which is a larger topic for the therapy world but I feel valid. If anger shows up, itās more āmy angerā which tends to be more like a teenagers that wants there way, which can be valid, but itās not about calling right or wrong, especially if it relates to group pathology as they seem far less aware of bias or group blindspot, or just donāt care as much with the agenda to have everyone be equal.
With this I see this overvaluing of simple emotions of the inner child. There is this cliched phrase of āyou are too in your headā, and it often amuses me cause I want to say the opposite, āyou are too much in the bodyā where it can get histrionic, unstable/ triggered and unable to understand the higher meaning of any emotion or relational perception. As though any and all emotional expression is always wholesome, or a really strong desire to just have it stay in raw child emotions, because it sort of feels good, enmeshed and close for everyone. I find this personally challenging because I have a fair amount of trauma myself, there are times Iām not in touch with my feelings, and integrate more green than Iām aware of, and be with my inner child etc. But itās hard to sit with when you also have integral perceptions, because I trust greens less because of the above, feel like I have to be very wary of their limits, or Iām left alone to deal with things they canāt carry, or worse I rub up against some sort of green bias and it gets messy. As I say I feel this has occurred with therapists even, which is hard to sit with. Relativism, a seeming lack of regard for what the facts are, or the world thatās actually there outside of my head, and a fair amount of what I list above has been quite the struggle to bump up against. Thatās been a tough journey cause I certainly was not validating my own point or of high self esteem enough to think I was perhaps seeing things from a higher vantage. But I have started to muse that I think certain emotional expressions only click in at integral.
Would be curious of otherās take or struggles with green, or any other level for that matter.
My mom canāt stand my lectures. There is a power in the words. There instead is a call to bring the rest of my being into this lighter play. A joy emerges. No one needs to know, but they will just in being around that energy. Turn it around.
One thing I can say for sure is that some of the darkest times in my life was my years of conflict with green, internally and externally especially when I became at odds with my social peer group. I felt alienated from the world and when I realized that I was riddled with contradictions I beat myself up badly. I gave up on any form of growth and entered in to a dangerous time in which I was tremendously nihilistic. Years of destructive behavior and depression later I stumbled upon Integral philosophy and Kenās work and managed to crawl out of a deep hole. Things started to make sense and a handful of years later there has been growth.
Itās still challenging to go out in the world and interact with people day to day. No one that Iām aware of is interpreting reality from an Integral level. This has basically forced me to learn how to be more accepting and less judgmental of others and interact from their level. I still have moments in which I loose my cool and wonder why the hell Iām on the planet! Iāve become a better listener and surprisingly Iāve had people actually say to me that they heard me saying something that helped them or peaked there interest. The more I let them be themselves the more open they are to listening to what arises within myself.
Appreciate that share Brian, feel like each time I am less ālonely at the topā after hearing yorus and others shares. Yours certainly sounds like a significant struggle. It makes me think of a recent talk between Keith Witt on suicide, not to be morbid but the existential crisis of each level up the spiral. A battle for meaning particularly, or peer group, I know Iāve battled fair bit of loneliness, depression, bouncing between inspiration and jadedness.
The call I went on last week was particularly helpful. I said this on it and am pretty sure this is true. That itās alot easier to be inclusive and accepting when you have your growth edge met. I definitely find that with greens, if I can tlak to some integral folks Iāll be more mellow and appreciate greens for what they are. If not they are always going to drive me crazy.
One of the biggest things for me I see of late is integral types really seem to want to be engaged in the world, have alot of worth to say that would be of use, which involves collaborating with the lower levels, but at times also battling them, both can be had to do alone. With me that tends to result in being more introspective but also unfortunately solitary in that.
I would be interested in joining up with you all when possible if you would have me.
Thanks
Todd
Hello @Tschmenk!
You can join us here on Zoom: https://zoom.us/j/8640405576
We will meet tomorrow at 7:00 AM PST (looks like 10:00 your time). We will be discussing the Purple Stage of development.
Looking forward to meeting you!
Sounds like a good topic! I will see what I can do, but I may not be able to join you this time due to other obligations. I teach dance lessons at 11am. Depends on how much preparation is required with my wife (and dance/teaching partner).
How often do you meet? If not this one, definitely a future one.
Also - thanks for responding so quickly! Unexpected.
Todd
We meet every Sunday at the same time. But if you canāt make this time, not to worry - we are planning on starting another group sometime mid week. If you send me an email at greenteaji108@gmail.com, we will send you updates/info.
Aloha!
Will do! Glad we connected! Mornings during the week tend to work better. I am usually free until noon, Wednesdays are especially good. Now that I know I can warn my partner that I will be jumping on to talk with you all. Tomorrow, well, that may not land so well with her. Playing with the wheel of fortune there.
Talk soon.
Thanks again for the quick response.
Todd
Hey Ryan, let me know if you start another mid week group!
Yes. Let me know as well. Right now I donāt see an opening on Sunday due to an obligation at 11am until June.
I have just joined this group and I do not know what ā2nd tier levelā is but I certainly can identify with much of the content I do understand. I sit in amongst my peers at work and must hold my tongue. I listen to them go on and on about things that to me are separatist views, separating them according to the most popular beliefs inspired by the fear-based agenda of mass media and the military-industrial complex we find ourselves in these days. I feel their suffering and the places their blindness and limitations take them and am helpless to offer any assistance. I know that if I put in my 2 cents worth, so to speak, that it will cause them to focus their suffering on me. I increasingly have felt more and more alone in my views, my attitudes and my interests and values. I have recently longed for others to talk to and form accepting, loving friendships with. It is a challenging time to be alive and even more challenging to be awake and dealing with the higher-vibrational longings I have to be a better human being and be a valued living organism on this planet. I think this is due to the fact that I am an elder, who has spent 25 years healing myself and seeking for higher truths. Now it would be so fantastic to have inspiration, acceptance, and companionship from others. I want you to know I am here and would love to have someone to share with.
Hi Sharon (I guess this is your name?)
Welcome to this topic and to the Forum all together.
What you are writing is the common experience of so many of us. First we think that there must be something wrong with us - until we find people who can relate to what is happening to us and who understand what you are talking about in terms of worldview.
Thatās why we had started Live groups on Video on Zoom to be able to connect and talk about topics in which we are interested. I host a group on Sundays at 11 am Eastern time. If you are interested, to join send me your email at heidi56@me.com.
You can watch meetings from the beginning of the year: https://thewisdomfactory.net/integral-community-chat/
At the moment there is the āsummer holeā, but I think to start again next Sunday if people are willing to join again.
I certainly understand this feeling of being alone. I wrestle with that a lot. I think in some way, every level of development has an aspect of loneliness to it. Meaning, if you were to ask others at various levels if they ever feel alone, you would probably find many who would agree! That, I think, is something that we have in common wherever we are on the journey of development. Perhaps a point of connection?
As a result of my own wrestling with this issue, Iām wondering these days if I can find more joy and connection with others by going into their level and getting curious about life there? I know I also find myself wanting people bring people up to a higher level and converse from there. But, I do think that one of the benefits of being Integral is that we can relate to all of the levels. We can learn to skillfully dive into the level of the person we are with, get super curious about that level and their experience in it, and find many ways to connect with them.
Something that is rather interesting when I journal in the morning, and something I started doing recently, is noticing certain elements of previous version of self, for example, my Amber version of self, showing up in certain situations of my life. Iāll see a thought pattern or emotional pattern that originated during that level of developmentā¦ and there it is, expressing through me again! Iām wondering if you might find something like this useful? Can you recall experiences at the different levels? Could connecting to those experiences support you in finding a deeper connection and curiosity with the people you are with? Iām thinking that we can jump into a level and ādanceā with a person there, speaking their language, and perhaps planting some seeds and language that invites them into their next level of development. I think this is a good use of our Integral abilities :-).
I hope this sparks some insights for you that may bring you into new ways of relating with individuals no matter where they are on their journey. Thank you for sharing so openly.
I agree with you, DJH. Nice post, some good points.
What I would offer may not be very satisfying, as it doesnāt relate to trying to increase or improve social interactions. Rather, it is about working within ourselves to address loneliness. I remember reading or hearing psychologist/Buddhist meditation teacher Jack Kornfield talk about his meditation during a prolonged retreat being disturbed by sexual fantasies, which he ultimately traced to his sense of loneliness. And his loneliness, or āapart-ness,ā he ultimately recognized as simply the other side of his experience/feelings and the truth of his Wholeness. I find it helpful to remember this.
Also, spiritual teacher Gangaji who focuses a lot on self-inquiry offered some practices I have found useful. One begins by ācalling upā the feelings of loneliness (or any bothersome feeling/emotion), and allows them to fully expand into consciousness. One invites them to be present, and just feels/senses/experiences them, allows them to fully be present without any objection, and notices their place in the body. Then one inquires/asks: whatās beneath this? And holds that question in consciousness until the answer arises (and it does, it will). And one then applies the same process as applied to the loneliness (allowing whatever has come up to be fully present, fully felt/experienced, etc.). Then inquires/asks again: whatās beneath this? And you can do this process āall the way to bliss.ā Or you can stop at any new arising and work with that in whatever way you want. Some surprising things can arise!
None of this is to minimize the importance of social connection/interaction, either with people of Integral like-mind or like-spirit, or with people at different stages of development; most of us definitely need at least some of that. But we can also work (and play, or ādanceā as Denver Joe Hudson says) with our own interiors to find meaningful ways of encountering and relating to our loneliness.
(And of course, we can always sing; two of my favorites:)
āDid you hear that lonesome whippoorwill
He sounds too blue to cry
The midnight train is whining low
Iām so lonesome I could cry.ā (Hank Williams)
OR
āLonely days, lonely nights
Where would I be without my womanā¦ā (Bee Gees, dedicated to Jack Kornfield 
)
Something I have been working with lately is feeling into the way the emergent stages mostly exist in the upper quadrants, so there is an inherent experience of fragmentation to it. I find Ryanās embodiment practice very helpful. Getting at least two quadrants working together has been very helpful, but being a consciousness pioneer is still hard work. The social structures and systems that make living easier are not here yet. I personally donāt find it ever gets easier, but when I think about what it means to pioneer something I get why the challenge is worth it and then I spend more time shifting my focus to the thrill of the wilderness adventure 