You have a twisted world view Ray. But I still laughed at your monkey’s and bananas analogy 
Straw man and also your typical misrepresentation of what was actually said. In other words, you are a liar. You literally put quotes around something and then entered something I did not say, and you also put ALL CAPS on what I did not say.
Then your projection of the American Kumbaya onto me, when in fact you are the one who sees America as Kumbaya land. How can I live in a fantastical noosphere global kumbaya and also “feed the people existential negativity”.
You can’t even keep your own argument straight in your head. Am I feeding existential negativity or do I live in a fantastical kumbaya nosphere?
Get your story straight, or I really can’t respect your words for more than a sack of smelly dogshit.
You get really butthurt when faced with FACTS and real history. I can see it in your writings.
Oh, boo-hoo. I don’t pat the USA on the shoulder and say “there. there - you are a special little boy even if you are a homicidal maniac”.
Why do we even HAVE drug cartels? That’s my point. It’s a result of bad Republican policy going back to Nixon wanting a way to imprison blacks and hippies. Without our nonsensical drug policy, there would not be any drug cartels to “murder” (or their families, or their surrounding communities full of "collateral damage). So the USA has a fucked up policy created and supported by Republicans, and this creates problems in other countries, so we go in with bombers and bomb the shit out of them - and you expect us to just ignore all the dumbfuckery and say “yeah, the USA is the greatest nation in the world”.
Will you be willing to compare countries where drugs are decriminalized? Of course not, because you are absolutely unwilling to see the benefits of anything progressive anywhere in the entire universe in the entire history of the universe. But oh, yeah - let’s look at all the drug cartels on the border of The Netherlands or Portugal.
Well, if I’m presented with bullshit that the USA is the best place in the world in all space and all time and you are not ever willing to present one negative thing about Republicans or the USA and never willing to admit anything ever good about progressivism - yeah - piss off with your fragility and your hypocritical double standard. When Luwanna literally asks you to show some kind of rational and compromising position and you refuse several times, then you want other people to pat you on your back and treat you with kid gloves? nahh … you reap what you sow with me, lol.
If you were willing to ever meet in the middle and say god things about progressive / Green tier, then yeah we can have a completely different discussion. But you absolutely refuse to give one inch on your fanaticism or to find one example of positive results of progressivism.
The problem is you are so completely fragile that you cannot accept any criticism of the United States, and that fragility is because way deep, deep deep down, you know how accurate I am. Only people who are insecure in their position are afraid to meet a compromise position.
Here - I was reading this today.
https://www.robertmasters.com/about-robert/robert-augustus-masters-clarifying-my-past/
You see how progressive admit when they are wrong, and then start to make amends? THAT is strength of character. I respect THAT. Trump Conservatives and people like you who dogmatically support absolutely everything presented by your side and dogmatically stand firm thateverything wrong is the other side’s fault - you are just living in fear of facing your own inconsistencies, inadequacies, fears and insecurities - pffft.
I don’t know him personally - but if you want to know who I socialize with, it’s people like this.
The rest of the debate is off topic and just feeds your need to distract and redirect.
I thought that was China, actually. Or maybe that was just the greatest number of people within their borders within a short time frame. But bringing almost three quarters of a billion people out of poverty in just 18 years is a hell of a feat.
"In 2000, roughly 3 per cent of the country’s population was classified as middle class. By 2018, more than half of China’s population – 707 million people – had entered the country’s middle-income bracket, according to calculations from the Centre for Strategic and International Studies that defined the middle class as those spending between US$10 and US$50 a day.
As China’s middle class has expanded, it has in many ways also started to look like America’s.
In its most recent middle-class analysis, the Pew Research Centre in 2016 classified 52 per cent of the US population as middle class.
If you look at 30 years it’s even more amazing. The first time I considered teaching in China (I never did) in the early 1990’s it was still mostly poor and rural.
Note I don’t think this is “success” - but yes you are right - if I wear the lens of looking at everything from a consumer capitalist point of view, China has far surpassed the success of the United States in a much shorter time frame and with three times the population.
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To be fair to Brother Tequila, he did admit that he thinks the progressive victories that gave us women’s suffrage, civil rights in the 60s, and gay marriage in the 00’s were all positive things. But I fear he underestimates the conservative (regressive) appetite out there to roll many of those victories back.
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What is going to be rolled back?
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How was the CCP able to accomplish this? They did this all on their own?
My God man. I posted earlier today a glowing recommendation for a brilliant card carrying Communist. You keep spewing ad hominem attacks like confetti at a NYE parade. Youre an ad hominem trigger just waiting to Trumpity this, Hrumphity durumpity Trumpity that.
Your world view is very dark Mr Bennett.
Here we go, two birds one stone:
I mean, just as “on their own” as America did, yeah? The glory days of America’s middle class were largely thanks to Keynesian/New Deal economics and unionization internally, and the massive manufacturing/economic vacuum externally that was left in the wake of WWII. And then Reagan/Thatcher brought in the new neoliberal supply-side paradigm after the Keynesian paradigm hit the rocks, which, despite helping to temporarily respark the global economy, then created the massive wealth inequalities, transnational oligarchies, and concentrations of power that we are struggling with today, and are actively preventing the emergence of the next major economic paradigm while hastening our descent toward climate catastrophe.
I agree roll back of Abortion on a State by State basis is highly likely. Don’t worry, Blues will be able to Abort at will. Might trigger a Red flight to Blue States.
I haven’t heard of any discussion of rolling back gay rights previously so assume it’s a Texas thang. Just as I can find a Fascist in the wood pile that wants to codify teaching children how to take it in the arse or play dress up, that’s not mainstream is it?
I do think the roll backs will likely include:
- reinstantiate removal of all racist laws - bye bye CRT, Woke
- clear deliniation of State and Federal roles specifically regarding Elections, Mandates, etc. This would be a roll back of Dems attempt to Federalize State’s responsibilities
- Enforcement of Border security and Immigration processes
Of course I assume Biden or whom ever takes his place in 2023 will Veto all of this legislation at the Federal level so fully expect Red states to sue DNC power grab Iat the the Supreme Court, just as the CCP Vaccine Mandates are being heard right now.
Blue Mayor’s and their Administration’s will be sued and impeached for dereliction of duty at a minimum and collusion to harm the public. Attorney Generals will be sued and charged similarly.
Will pre-Woke/Cancel Culture/CRT civil rights be rolled back? No. If anything they will be reaffirmed.
Basically yes there will be simple roll backs to “rule of law”. This is why it’s important to not “make up your own bullshit” but to follow and enforce the laws passed. If they need to be changed, simply rewrite and pass the new versions.
Key to all this is we currently still live in a Democracy with Rule by Consent. It’s that age old “by the people, for the people” that the self proclaimed Moral Architects despise so.
You might call it an Integral Populist movement across all Identity groups to stop the devisive arbitrary insurrection against basic rule of law.
I see it as a HIGHLY Integral shift that will lead to better lives for all Americans and hence support better lives for all humanity.
So you are saying a fascist is responsible for the Texas anti-abortion bill? Because it’s the same guy who is trying to use the same framework to abolish gay marriage.
Tell me, which racist laws have wokists created that will be rolled back?
“You might call it an Integral Populist movement ”
Why would I do that, when the GOP social holon has a center of gravity at red/amber? Just because you like it, don’t make it “integral”.
“wants to codify teaching children how to take it in the arse or play dress up”
Jesus Christ dude. And you call this “integral”?
I think we’re in quite a lot of agreement here. Both the Right and Left hollowed out the middle class under the auspices of Globalization (Green altitude).
A Democratic trifecta passed Most Favored Nation status for China in 1979, but this was definitely a bipartisan trend. Just as NAFTA under the Republicans in 1993.
Motivations expressed to the populace were Humanitarian - increased egalitarianism and Western standards. We intended to lift up the China and Mexico (specifically) through open trade. Both Mexico and China seeing increased egalitarianism was one of the stated intents, at the time, for opening up the US markets. To claim that AT THE TIME lifting Chinese and Mexicans out of poverty, increasing egalitarianism, was NOT an intention is at a minimum inaccurate and disingenuous at worst. Americans of all walks of life were having Green thoughts (long before Ken got to work). And yes, business people were looking at how they could get into the Chinese or Mexican markets, as well as utilize both for production for the US markets.
The concern at the time was the hollowing out of the US industrial base, which it has. Mexico’s impact on our own agriculture has impacted profitability to the point that megacorp farming is the norm. Family farms have essentially be completely pushed out.
Same with Chinese manufacturing. Gone are almost all the small companies that made snow shovels in Iowa, BBQ’s in Texas, fine footwear in Boston, high fashion in San Francisco, or even movies in LA.
So should we consider it xenophobic to rewrite our trade agreements periodically? Anyone that would say this is speaking out of political motivations - think of it as “power play” motivations. The world is not static, game theory is always in play on all sides.
So here we are. The US opened it’s markets, shared it’s production practices, shared it’s technologies, enjoyed the fruits of the relationships, and has suffered the results of the relationships. Maybe it’s time to rewrite our trade agreements after viewing their impacts over 30-40 years. Seems not unreasonable.
Come on Corey. I was trying to use humor to lighten things up. LOL
Thanks for stating it clearly @corey-devos - “GOP social holon has a center of gravity at red/amber.” What “center of gravity” do you see the Democratic party at?
Proposals are, well, proposed (Texas abortion bill, late term abortions) and our Liberal Democracy rules on them through our Democratic elections. Our courts will rule on the alignment with our Constitutional legal system. If the Citizenry thinks it’s “good”, then might reelect the legislators who passed the concepts. We do have a “government by consent” after all.
What center of gravity would you consider is killing unborn fetus, babies, humans? Would that be Teal, Green, Ultraviolet, Red, Amber?
Just for the record, supply side neoliberalism and the global markets it created is not “green”, it’s orange. Green doesn’t mean “global” — after all, Orange is also a worldcentric altitude, but sees the world in terms of markets, winners, and losers (“mean orange meme” representing the sort of extractive capitalism we’ve been discussing), while a green-altitude economy would likely be built on principles of sustainability (in terms of intention anyway) but would likely get caught up in all sorts of “equality vs. equity” contradictions.
“ What center of gravity would you consider is killing unborn fetus, babies, humans? Would that be Teal, Green, Ultraviolet, Red, Amber?”
Well, let’s see:
Red doesn’t give a damn what anyone says, no one can tell them what to do.
Amber’s judgment will be based entirely on metaphysics, belief, and black-and-white moral reasoning, and will make no exceptions for things like rape or unviable pregnancies (as seen in Texas).
Orange will take a scientific view based on viability of the fetus.
Green will prioritize the woman’s bodily autonomy.
Teal/turquoise will support the best possible compromise that reduces the greatest amount of suffering possible, while including as many of these perspectives as possible. Which was the status quo before regressive conservatives decided to turn the clock back 60 years (remembering that Roe was implemented 7-2 by a Supreme Court, and most of the conservative appointed justices supported the ruling).
Teal/turquoise would NOT support amber imposing their beliefs and metaphysics into everyone else.
Teal and turquoise would seek to minimize the total number of abortions as much as possible, using methods like sex education (“taking it up the arse” lol) and access to contraceptives. Such as the Colorado IUD plan that drastically reduced teenage pregnancies and abortions, but conservatives killed because it doesn’t fit into an abstinence-only set of solutions.
Teal/turquoise solutions would also prioritize improving conditions for poor Americans so they don’t feel like having a child will keep them trapped in poverty (it costs an average of $5k-10k just to deliver a child in this country) by creating systems to help with medical bills, early education, day care, school lunches, etc. All things that conservatives have opposed at every step.
Roe vs. Wade was the best possible compromise (as Ken himself believes) and created a system where the only “late term abortions” being performed were in cases of unviable fetuses or risk to the mother. Now Texan women don’t even have those protections, and are forced to carry fetuses with organs growing outside their bodies to term. Which is not reducing suffering, it’s creating more suffering in the name of religious belief.
Thank god for the abortion pill, the FDA, and the USPS.
Again - your own projection.
You have a very dark view of everyone who does not follow your position and rather than come to terms with that, you need me to fill that role. So I oblige you.
And - I would also argue - that being unable to “go dark” is a major fault of Green Tier. I think people along the road to Integral believe they have to always be “nice” - or at the very least academic or professional. Only time will tell where my theory takes me vs the “nice” path.
This doesn’t mean that “going dark” is higher than Green - but inability to go green is a Green shadow.
Your willingness to go dark against other causes and do ad homenim - then take the victim status when someone does it to you shows you are also struggling with this green shadow.
It’s common. lots of people want to see themselves as “the good guy” to the point where they do not accept responsibility in themselves and twist reality around so that they are always good and the other person is always bad.
So yeah, no problem - I can look into dark areas and address the worst topics, and also look into a potentially dark future and prepare for it. I can also face a person with unconscious dark intent and the dark ideas they just repeat without thinking from their brainwashing media. No problemo. I don’t see this as anything bad really. Whether it is more or less effective than the “love and light to all” method is debatable.
While I don’t “live in the dark”, I’m comfortable going there. While you are comfortable going there, you do it unconsciously and lie to yourself and deny that you live there.
So he has made progress, then? Kicking and screaming the whole way, but learning is possible.
I honestly can’t take time to read everything he writes, so yes I missed that.
I do remember him directly refusing to admit anything positive, though. So I guess this week we have progress. Whether he regresses again after diving deep into his chosen media - we’ll see.
This question leads me to think of an off-topic question for @corey-devos
or maybe Ken
From Teal or higher - does a human fetus have more value than an animal fetus?
My hunch is that at Ultraviolet a society would carefully consider the value of unborn animal fetuses - but this might also just be some Green Tier Vegan ideals that becomes less important at higher levels.
Regardless - since we are not yet at Teal as a society and society has to address it’s Green shadows before it can move into Green:
@FermentedAgave - What center of gravity would you consider the United States constant obsession with war, our celebration of military “service” as more significant than medical service, for example, and the traditional conservative approach to use military force as a first resort in forcing other countries to do what the United States wants? What center of gravity is celebration of war and conflict and showing up to a protest armed to the teeth and wearing battle armor?
There’s that conservative humor for you, always punching down 
Orange-to-green. Biden is orange, AOC and Bernie are green. Woke extremists are green with an amber underbelly.
I still have some questions that went unanswered.
Do you acknowledge that the same guy who crafted the Texas abortion law is trying to use the same legal framework to abolish gay marriage? Is he a fascist in one case, but not the other?
Which racist laws have wokists created that will need to be rolled back? That’s a legit question – I also see much of what passes as “woke” as a failure of the left, but as far as I know, they haven’t had a whole lot of luck legislating their lunacy, at least not nearly as much as the wingnuts on the right.
@corey-devos I don’t think the author, as much as he might like, regardless if he gains some modicum of support, will make much progress on abolishing gay marriage. The vast majority of Americans don’t have the “issue of gay marriage” as a top 5 concern.
Less actual legislation, but usurping power through corruption of the administrative agencies. Clear cut examples are agencies forcing religions to violate their beliefs, schools adopting Critical Race Theory base racism, universities teaching Criticial Race based curriculum, corporations adopting policies to actively discriminate against people based upon their Identity rank. All of these are in direct violation of our Civil Rights Acts as plainly articulated previously. Yes, we’ve reached “Peak Woke”. Now it’s time to Wake Up and Clean Up.
Maybe my understanding is lacking. I thought Orange would be highly capable, responsible for their duties and roles. Would Biden dissolving our borders not give him at least a bit of Green street cred?
Perhaps a more nuanced question would be “how healthy of an Integral level instantiation are each?”