I think I have absolutely no respect for this discussion - if I ever had any to begin with.
It’s just more political drama and outrage as entertainment, circular and never-ending because the people with the most extreme positions have become accustomed to not having to face consequences of their idiotic though processes - until it’s too late and then they deflect the actual reason for their trauma on a convenient scapegoat.
I’ve seen this throughout my life when some people get all excited about some crazy thing, for example at the workplace there are always a few people who like to get others excited about everything that is wrong - then they convince someone enough and that person takes action and gets fired or something and the rabble rousers keep their status because they never actually did anything. @FermentedAgave reminds me of this kind of person in all these endless drama discussions. He’ll gladly get someone all excited enough to actually shoot at Biden or Storm the US Capitol - but then sneakily wash their hands the way Trump did and leave the rubes holding the bag, lmao.
I don’t think @FermentedAgave is unusual in this - unfortunately I think it’s a very common trait, especially in our reality TV world where people confuse, conflate and mix up TV drama and reality. Q anon and the Republican party have joined the most extreme leftists in some kind of fantasy-turned-real reality TV drama fetish.
It’s going to be really interesting for me to observe how this all work out for you guys over there in good 'ol Amerikuh over the next 10-20 years as more and more people turn into armed whackos. Like that kid in the news this week. A tragedy and I feel compassion for him, but at the same time I’m not willing to propose mercy. More fools will die senseless deaths with increasing frequency as the years go by - as well as those without a certain “rootedness” to reality. And also their victims will suffer.
It makes me sad - but I spent most of 2020 processing that sadness and now I just accept that humanity will go through yet another cycle. That is the terrible beauty of this world we live in.
Well isn’t that a pretty pathetic outlook on life @raybennett?
If our steady progression of enriching humanity with our beloved Liberal Democracy simply cannot be “integral” enough, I would HIGHLY recommend “iterating” a bit on Integral Theory. If I remember correctly, KW is quite clear that IT is a map of reality, not actual reality itself. Getting sucked into World must Match Theory leads to cognitive dissonance or aperspectival madness. With science the hypothesized theory is tested against reality. If it doesn’t jive, you modify the theory, not destroy the world you are observing.
PS. Can’t let your political condemnation of 2nd Amendment role by with pointing out the US Citizenry has 300-400M firearms in personal possession, today, right now. Point is if you think it realistic to “roundem up” that’s about as like as Liz Cheney getting reelected by the WY Citizenry. Perhaps there is a Zone 2/7 solution we aren’t considering.
The Media Stonewalls on the Steele Dossier
‘Why don’t they just fess up and say they’re sorry?” That is the question journalists have asked about the corporate and institutional clients of my crisis-management business. It’s a question media companies should be asking themselves amid the implosion of the Steele dossier. Here we are, a few weeks after the dossier was discredited, and no one has paid a price.
The first factor in a successful disinformation campaign is an audience that desperately wants to believe something. Then you find a plausible allegation that fits the marketplace. Next, you implant an outrageous allegation within the plausible one. Finally, you find a trustworthy person, someone simpatico with media organizations, to let it rip.
What is pathetic and also sad is that you are unable and unwilling to actually understand the discussions that you join into.
You don’t comprehend that what I am saying is: ACCEPT THE NEXT STAGE IN EVOLUTION - and it will not be pretty. Your presumption that only the cities will burn is contrary to the data we are actually seeing. I don’t want to take your guns. On the contrary - let you and your idiot community bear the consequences of your poor decisions and let your communities suffer more mass shootings as more armed members of your community just “lose it”. Then there is COVID - let the idiots die already. In elections where one party or the other wins by a narrow margin - just let Republicans not get vaccinated and maybe enough will die before the next election cycle.
I don’t want to “rescue” you or your community - let you all bear the consequences of your own decisions.
Go on - beat that straw man drum harder and spread more propaganda to your people. Reinforce and entrench those ideas that are doomed to failure. Arm crazy nutjobs to the teeth and let them roam your community free without any controls whatsoever. Spread the meme that you need to take up arms and fight a civil war against Democrats. Call everyone a communist and convince everyone in your community that those communists are coming to get them. Don’t take vaccinations in the middle of a pandemic and encourage others not to as well.
Let all the chips fall where they will.
Integral isn’t about following unhealthy shadows and allowing the lower tiers to drive the bus. No. Nor is it about dragging anyone kicking and screaming when they just absolutely refuse to see anything outside a narrow view.
Also - thank you, actually for making it so obviously clear to me that there are going to be a lot of people who really will never be able to be reasoned with and who are completely unwilling to just let an Integral community exist without trying to tear it down. I actually am going to get a good rifle with a good scope. There aren’t many of your types around where I live, but just in case in the 1% chance - I’ll have it. Just in case someone like you just can’t be convinced I’m not a communist or a Maoist or whatever other straw man you have invented in your head about me despite all efforts at reasonable discussion. Someone like you / him may descend further into their perspectival madness with someone like you just reinforcing his crazy crazy. And it may actually be necessary for me to shoot someone like that dead. Less than a 1% chance, sure. Anyway, there are also wild hogs that may need to be dealt with so it won’t be a wasted investment in the 99% scenario.
In addition to the data I shared earlier showing more of a risk to firearm deaths in Republican America - here are the facts about COVID deaths. Spoiler - decisions have consequences and a virus doesn’t GAF about how you try to spin it.
Oh, hey - @FermentedAgave seems that drinking your own urine is an alternative solution to the vaccine. Well, at least according to a Eric Trump endorsed Doctor. Be sure to spread the misinformation with your wife and with your neighbors. Don’t let the commies force you to get vaccinated when drinking your own piss will work just as well.
America as a whole will also face a rude awakening when they suddenly wake up and realize their vote no longer matters and elections in the future will be mostly symbolic. The obsession of the entire population with things that don’t matter and our drama queen reality TV culture with reality spinning fake news media - all these thigs will come home to roost.
The United States doesn’t deserve to be the worlds leader. The US suffered a setback on the global stage and as an illegitimate government will suffer even more. The United States under an isolationist Republican regime will discover the hard way that Brexit was a disaster and the US will suffer the consequences of it’s own Brexit.
All these things are just falling into place based on decisions the population as a whole made a decade ago and those decisions are just now starting to have consequences. But as is the nature with most people, Americans can’t even remember one year ago, much less trace the cause-effect of their decision making process back 10 years.
While academically we all know that everyone has within themselves Violet, Teal, Blue, Orange, Red, Amber, Violet it’s a matter of having each of these altitudes manifest in a healthy manner. Case in point many would consider you owning a scoped rifle for self defense as possibly “healthy” Red, just as we might view a Taekwando master. What makes owning a scoped rifle unhealthy Red? Perhaps thinly veiled physical threats with those that you disagree with politically? Perhaps. What makes owning a scoped rifle healthy? If you purchase a firearm and go through firearm’s training, I think you will find a much healthier set of guidelines than you’re currently aware of.
Now what’s interesting is if you own a firearm and do not harm people with it, does that by definition make you “higher altitude” than someone that cannot own a firearm? If you choose to not “use for ill” whatever you have access too, what does that say about you and your development level?
Are you saying the next stage in human Evolution is anarchy or something else? Humanity has always gone through iterative growth spurts, then regress, only to re-incorporate into healthier next stage of development. Or not.
@raybennett Most everyone is already “armed to the teeth” with 300-400M firearms in personal possession in the USA, including many that likely don’t agree with your political perspectives (nutjobs?). If the “threat” matched your aggressive claims, wouldn’t we see it at least crack the Top 10? Personally if I were to find something to be outraged over, I would start systematically at the top and work my way down. I would suspect that some gun deaths buried are Unintentional Injuries and Suicide.
Not sure what your metric is, but Republicans normally get chastised for “nation building” as opposed to “isolationism”. Meanwhile Brandon has managed to find a few more welcoming despot countries to surrender to including Russia with respect to Ukraine, China with respect to specifically Taiwan and generally across the global, Iran/Pakistan/ISIS/Al Queda with respect to Afghanistan, Iran with respect to nuclear non-proliferation, and to every other genocidal despot globally by waving his Depends to anyone that will watch.
Let’s see about all the little nations that are also near collapse. Ethiopia (120M), Nigeria (+200M) are up next under the Compassionate Leadership of Brandon.
I would agree all of this global turmoil represents much more an “Existential Threat” than if we turned off every single light, parked every single car, shut down every single air conditioner in the US which would have little to no impact on global warming.
I see a lot of denial in your post, to be honest - with several illogical methods to maintain your cognitive disconnect.
I also eat healthy, exercise, meditate and otherwise do what I can to mitigate all those things on the chart in my own life. I’m not understanding what conclusion you are trying to arrive from the data you posted. If you say I should be outraged by it and “crack the top 10” - does this mean you are in favor of passing laws that force people to meditate daily, eat a plant based diet, exercise and walk around with a padded helmet? I’m not following how you expect to “take a crack at it”. Gun legislation is obvious. How do you legislate preventing “unintentional injuries”? Again it’s obvious you don’t really think through your ideas and see how absurd they are when you are just trying to be “against” someone.
None of the causes of death you mention invalidate the fact that the powder keg is armed white Republicans in rural America. Also known as domestic terrorists, mass shooters, and yes - nutjobs.
It has always been this group of people using thinly veiled threats or even outright threats to use their firearms. It is almost exclusively Republicans who talk about the need to use firearms to not be “oppressed” by “communists”. So whether you admit it or not - you are amongst those who are inciting violence within your own community. I have to laugh hilariously at your suggestion at firearms training, lol. As if I haven’t been on a range literally hundreds of times and haven’t had hundreds of hours in firearms training. Typical.
It’s also complete hypocrisy that you suggest I go to firearms training. What part of “THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED” do you not understand, lol. Oh … I see now. when I start whistling your own dog whistles back to you - suddenly you get alarmed. lmao. Oh, no - a liberal maoist communist is going to buy a gun - let’s suddenly implement some gun control, lol. Complete hypocrisy.
And let’s just state the obvious with international relations. Trump is Putin’s bitch. Trump wanted Ukraine to give him something to him personally in exchange for help. Like a two-bit gangster. Trump did a terrible job with China negotiations. Trump abdicated US leadership in the Gulf and let Putin take the lead in the Middle East. Trump brokered bad deals for the US left and right - the most obvious one being the withdrawal from Afghanistan. Trump sabotaged America’s position in America on his way out, like the immature manbaby he is. Are you really saying Biden is responsible for Ethiopia and Nigeria? That’s just stupid. Stop it. Stop making points that are just plain stupid.
You always seem to see a lot what you want to see. LOL.
Lots of assumptions and projections in here @raybennett
I think you’re confusing discussions on both literal meaning and intent of the 2nd Amendment. At least half the nation is CONTINUING (not changing) the historical interpretation that the 2nd Amendment was put in place for self defense against both individuals AND the government. This is no way is calling for armed insurrection at all.
But as with much of the Progressive’s “it’s never enough, never fast enough” strategy on literally every issue you take up. You can’t even see that adopting the “viability” definition was a compromise and continue to pound from your alter of great ideas that late term abortion is a foregone conclusion. You can’t even see that mandatory background checks and safety training was in fact a compromise and now pound your alter of we’re enlightened we know better for much more restrictive infringement of 2A.
You can argue amongst your Lefty buddies how “unfair” it is that you can’t “get it your way even faster”, but that’s not the kind of compromise you need to come up with those that aren’t real keen on any of your ideas.
Like I’ve told you several times, while you control the House, Senate, and White House AMEND THE CONSTITUTION by striking down 2A and adding Abortion as a “Rigth”, PACK THE COURT, ABOLISH ELECTORAL COLLEGE, appoint Stacey Abhrams in charge of Transnational Elections. Do it all!
@raybennett We’ve all seen the memes. They’re cute and give Colbert, Lemon, Stelzter, Maddow and rest of your news-tainers a chuckle. Heck, you can even pull up the memes at your mushroom parties for a chuckle.
But the American people, even a lot of Democrats, seem to be cluing in that President Biden, VP Harris, Speaker Pelosi, and Majority Leader Schumer ARE IN CHARGE and their performance is, well, their performance to own. You sound like a hormonal teenager blaming the parked car for side swiping you.
Perhaps Socialism/Communism is in fact dying out in the US. Bit early, but it’s clear the nation is becoming a bit more educated on actual policy, governance, and intent of the Democractic Party.
No - Trump really did mess America up. You trying to distract and deflect with Biden Harris doesn’t change the simple fact that Trump had a terrible record and brought America down in status globally.
Your mantras are really tiring and boring and the bottom line is that you, not I will face the consequences of your personality flaws.
Biden / Harris have absolutely nothing to do with you and your party to completely failing to be accountable for the worst President in modern history. Biden and Harris could only have won against Trump - that is how bad your party is now. Trump got completely destroyed and sent back to School by a “tweedle dee” candidate. You bet your farm on a flim-flam man, a con artist, a liar, and a crook. Way to go with those Christian values, man. With Christians like you it’s no wonder your priests molest your children left and right. You just turn a blind eye when someone in power is completely corrupt and try to help him out by drawing attention away from his corruption and incompetence at all costs.
Who cares about Biden? That fish doesn’t bite. Every Liberal I know only half supports him, and that half is that he “isn’t Trump”, lol. You are the only one who has a Biden / Harris fetish in here - as a way to completely ignore how your poor choices and complete lack of moral fiber have consequences for this country. You sure as heck aren’t a conservative with the way you constantly completely ignore any kind of accountability - and if you are representative of Christians then that’s sad how bad off and completely lacking in core values your religion has become. Whose your pastor? Jeffrey Epstein? He is close buds with Trump - so I guess this is what your values are all about. Keep attacking Biden so a rapist and child molester enabler can get back in office.
The 2022 Republican Party is the culmination of decades of so-called “Conservatives” looking the other way. Ignore the ugliness and redirect pent up anger and aggression towards any scapegoat that is available.
It’s a constant trend and an ugliness that Christian America has yet to come to terms with.
Of course Christian America could care less if Trump openly admits to grabbing women by the pussy or even raping multiple women. Heck, they let their own children be molested by those they place in power.
This has nothing to do with Biden and everything to do with Christian America refusing to accept responsibility for their own cowardice in addressing these issues over 100 years or more.
I know you’ve forsaken Christianity and all church communities and I pray that you can heal from whatever torment you have from that past.
What I can say is that in at least my church, everyone that volunteers goes through an NICS (FBI) background check and training to specifically identify abuse, inappropriate behaviors, and subtleties of grooming. For reporting any issues or concerns we are instructed to contact the police directly regardless of who the concern involves. In my experience, this is much higher integrity than any corporate or school organization I have been involved with.
Does it make up for past sins? No. Does it help insure integrity and safety for children and everyone involved? If you read the description, I’ll let you estimate effectiveness.
Douglas Murray was talking about the Death of Europe with the Hoover Institute’s Peter Robinson. To paraphrase a Murray statement that I think sums up much of the Left’s madness is - "We take the very worst characteristics of the broadest collective when evaluating ourselves. Then when evaluating others we take their very best characteristics within the narrowest collective."
This is the Left’s “perspective” on the USA, Western Civilizations, Christianity, or basically whatever identity group you might associate with. And your perspective on everyone outside your identity groups, is to see and assume only the absolutely best, most holy, most amazing spirituality, most incredible characteristics in every conceivable facet.
Not only is this a Big Downer for everyone, it’s also a Big Downer for the individuals by creating “Existential Angst”. Interestingly @corey-devos Zone’s map is quite good to breakdown, describe and perhaps identify possible fixes.
As an example it would be easy from your statements to assume you want me (the individual) to assume in my Zone 1 all the “sins of my fathers” any and all of furthest associates throughout history, and even any that might have any possible Identity overlap to myself".
I know this is the Left’s tactic to destroy individuals one by one and also en masse, but I’m afraid lots of people have woken up to the madness this manifests in the world. So no thanks to adopting your madness as my own.
Hear’s the Robinson/Murray interview if you’re interested:
[quote="@raybennett, post:349, topic:22464"]
The irony of this whole thread is … hijacked [/quote]
These discussions do not advance, they just seem to be reruns of the same typical Social Media stand-offs. I am disappointed that there is not more consus building here … While I still love you all my personal attention is focusing elsewhere.
Maybe you could all read @raybennett post below and explore together some unifying thoughts to lead a better forum that could include more voices?
Lol straw man. No - I wasn’t “tormented”. But facts are facts and the American Christian Community has serious problems with self accountability across the board.
I only bring it up because your only mode seem to be to cast stones from a glass house.
Again, you are being completely hypocritical.
I can also say “I pray that you can heal from whatever torment” from your past experiences with Communism.
I’m not really concerned with what some guy said in a book. There are millions of books out there and millions of ideas to selectively chose from.
What I am talking about is just complete hypocrisy and basic breakdown in the core values of Christians and other so-called conservatives. It’s a complete failure to get their own house in order.
“Existential Angst” - again hypocrisy, because the biggest angst in here seems to be you and your angst against everyone who doesn’t follow the FOX party line lockstep.
And no - I do not want you to assume the sins of your fathers. Can you read English? NOW - TODAY - you are turning a blind eye to your own flaws and the complete lack of morality in your own party TODAY.
Madness is trying to pretend you are a conservative when you are nothing even remotely of the kind and completely lack basic core conservative values. Madness is that the Neoconservative platform seems to be nothing more than straw manning and name calling. Madness is the absolute hypocrisy of your constant inability to look inward and instead projecting your madness on anyone and everyone.
@raybennett If we had a pluralistic political party system, I would be a Libertarian and was registered as a Libertarian until just after the Election was stolen from Hillary. And no, I didn’t vote for 45 in '16. Ironically I’ve been registered as a Democrat or Libertarian for the majority of my life. What became very clear is the DNC’s agenda was the single greatest Existential Threat to the United States of all the potential threats. Even more so a threat than World Hunger, Climate Change or any of the other E’vile Unicorns the Left concocts on their 5 year cycles. So what’s one to do when the options are the DNC’s ideology of Regression into Madness or the infinitely lesser evil, perhaps even positivity of the Republican party?
Since the DNC has gone batshit bonkers with their full scale Identity Marxism Ideology, they’ve distanced even further from where I prefer. Meanwhile the Republicans have become much more Libertarian, so more palatable today than in 2016.
my personal attention is focusing elsewhere.