Hi @excecutive, I haven’t read all the information or watched the videos but might do at some point when I have time. I think we have misunderstood each other though, which is fine. I thought you were worried about other countries wanting to topple America.
I don’t know any Trump supporters, but I don’t live in America so I wouldn’t be likely to. I can’t really answer any of your other questions.
Best wishes
Julia
Thanks for your honesty @Julia248 
I think it’s pretty common to ignore things that contradict our own views. Sadly this is happening to intelligent people on both sides in America, leading to more and more fear.
I think it’s important that we challenge our own narratives to maintain an integral mindset.
Well said.
I absolutely agree.
One thing I require to change my mindset is access to the actual “research” or “studies”. When I dig into these I always find the narrative has been distorted in between the source and the youtube talking head.
First things first - are we going to prosecute government leaders who lie? We have to decide this first. Because a hell of a lot of lying went on in all sectors of Government and this accelerated exponentially during the Trump administration and into the COVID pandemic. So no beating around the bush - if Faucci lied and we want to prosecute him, is it just because he is the current far right boogie man, the way Hillary Clinton was? Are we going to try to take some kind of action and legislate that government officials can be put in prison for lying - but then try to back out of it when the inevitable right wing government official flagrantly violates the same law?
Time and time again - literally dozens of times in my life - I’ve followed the trail of youtube talking heads to the source material to the actual facts of the matter discovered the story wasn’t anywhere close to what was being portrayed. This story is no different.
For example, here is a snippet from an article dated Oct 21, 2021.
NIH sent the 20 October letter to Representative James Comer (R–KY), ranking member of the House of Representatives oversight committee, along with a final progress report about the EcoHealth Alliance grant that NIH had funded and later canceled at then-President Donald Trump’s behest. (It was later reinstated but with conditions EcoHealth said it could not comply with.) The report describes studies conducted at WIV between June 2018 and June 2019 on recently collected bat coronaviruses circulating in the wild in China. Some examined whether their spike proteins, which the viruses use to attach to and infect cells, could when expressed in a previously known bat coronavirus called WIV1, bind to the human angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 cell receptor in a mouse model.
Here are some key points I take away when I read into this:
So what we have is a research study operating under President Donald Trum’s Administration that was basically doing “business as usual”, and when the mainstream liberal media found out about it they published it. Now a year later suddenly people are saying “Lock up Faucci” but curiously not “Lock up Trump”.
This is the curious thing about cognitive bias. Why Faucci and not Trump? Both authorized the research and both lied. Why one and not the other?
Now let’s take a look at how this is presented in the video at 2:39: “I’m not sure anything happened, but I know 100% it was covered up.”
WHAT? How can he be sure something is covered up when he doesn’t even know it happened in the first place?
This is the kind of lazy logic that I really don’t like. He doesn’t know any details but believes there was a coverup of something, when in fact everything was business as usual in the Federal Government, and far from “draining the swamp” - Trump just jumped right in and wallowed in the swamp with all the other swamp creatures.
I know @excecutive doesn’t like me to mention Trump - but it’s ironic as hell that this conspiracy traces back all the way to him during a period of time when Republicans controlled the Senate and the House.
Here is an uncomfortable fact for people seeing this as some kind of “conspiracy” - you’ve had your eyes closed for 50 years living in some kind of fantasy land and suddenly when you want to see something you want to pin it all on someone you don’t like: Faucci or Hunter Biden or Hillary or whoever else is the chosen target of the year for right wing anger. In your eagerness to pin it on just a few people you don’t like, you absolve yourself of any responsibility as a citizen in a democracy to keep up on this stuff. The failure is the failure that of an intellectually lazy American people who were quite willing to let this stuff go on for the past 50 years. Don’t bother you with “politics” or “controversy” - until something happens then “Oh - it’s a conspiracy! They hid things from us and lied to us!” (but only the Democrats, lol)
A healthy Democracy requires citizens to be involved in all the issues. What I see is a lot of people who have had their head in the sand for 50 years and then suddenly trying to shift the blame for not being a responsible citizen that there was some kind of conspiracy. No - they have been doing this in plain sight under both Republican and Democrat oversight for decades.
Here is the actual research - far from being any kind of conspiracy or secret or coverup
I agree with everything you wrote @raybennett
FYI I am not calling for anything beyond transparency. I think we should sanction the guilty and reveal the BS flowing in both directions. I don’t trust anyone on either side because there is obvious contradicting narratives and neither side acknowledges the guilty on their side.
I’m glad you’re in support of such accountability. I think we’re more credible and integral here when we call out both sides, thank you for doing that here. Much appreciated!
What is your take on Jeffrey Sachs reply to the question?
Has he completely switched ideological sides or is he exposing a lack of transparency among the agencies?
Is he being honest and factual with his comments, does he have any credibility and/or integrity in speaking out?
I’m not going to conjecture about his internal mental processes nor his motivation for saying it’s a “cover up”.
My point is that it isn’t a cover up, and if it is it’s either the best or the worst cover up in history because the annual reports and all the research done from 2014-2019 is publicly available for anyone to find it in 5 minutes, and it was also reviewed annually by a Republican controlled House of Representatives from 2014 - 2019, and both Obama from 2014-2016 and Trump from 2017-2019. All this review and nobody saw anything like what they are saying now.
How could a coverup actually happen? Someone would have to go into every person’s computer and / or file cabinet who was responsible for overseeing this project and reading the results - literally hundreds of people over the span of 5 years and two administrations - then change the data, get it all re-signed or forge signatures on the new edited documents, then sneak it back into everyone’s computer and replace it with the old one, and finally hack the file date to show it was saved between 2014-2019.
That is some epic level alien technology right there if they could do all that. So I guess for some that proves Alien interference in our politics and Aliens are behind COVID - or simply it as the person said “I’m not sure anything happened, but I know 100% it was covered up.” lol
This information has all been publicly available since 2014:
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21055989-understanding-risk-bat-coronavirus-emergence-grant-notice
If people failed to be concerned about it until COVID hit - that isn’t a coverup.
That’s just Americans being lazy and unconcerned about what their government is doing - until it’s possible to weaponize misrepresented facts against political opponents and pretend it’s a coverup when it’s impossible to “coverup” what has been in the public domain for 6 years.
Very clearly on the application - “Are Humans involved” checked “yes” lol
I think we need to do exactly that.
I trust those following this topic string will decide for themselves if your logic and reasoning is more sound or credible than Jeffrey Sachs reply to the question.
Honestly you lost me with this incoherent run on comment, I have no idea what you’re talking about.
It can’t be a coverup because the information about the project was given to dozens or hundreds of people since 2014 - including Republican house members and three Presidential Administrations. It was a completely open project constantly being reviewed annually. The desire to make it look like a coverup is merely political gaslighting: Because the general public chooses to mostly keep their head buried in the sand, any new information to them was a “coverup” rather than just admitting they just didn’t care enough to know about it.
It’s enough to state that what he is saying is false and factually not true. It wasn’t a coverup as he is saying. Why he chooses to say this I can not know if he is deliberately trying to state something he knows isn’t true, or if he is stating something false that he believes to be true.
Let’s take you for example - I cannot and don’t want to decide for myself why you and many others don’t actually investigate what you hear to verify it’s plausibility and then repeat things without first doing any verification. I can think of about half a dozen possibilities why, but to state what I think your motivations are isn’t constructive.
The mind projection fallacy it occurs when someone thinks that the way they see the world reflects the way the world really is, going as far as assuming the real existence of imagined objects. That is, someone’s subjective judgments are “projected” to be inherent properties of an object (like what a person is thinking), rather than being actually observed.
I still trust those reading this topic string to decide for themselves the credibility that Jeffrey Sachs brings to the questions asked on the video. Merry Christmas
Here’s an interesting video that integrates some Christian ideas into Integral.
I like the part where he says one cannot experience that others are “true” unless one first experiences that oneself is “true” - but this “true” cannot be confused with “right” or “correct” (especially politically), which is where many people go wrong. When a person experiences themselves as “true” (call it whatever according to whatever tradition) they often mix that up with being intellectually or morally correct with the the conclusion that those of different logical thinking are “not true”, and worthy of anything up to and including death or even genocide and / or dehumanization.
When people experience that they are “true” - at that moment it’s critical I think that they also understand the nature of this “trueness” is not intellectual or moralistic or other egoic type of knowledge that makes others wrong.
My spiritual take on this … Almost everyone speaks truth when in an honest dialog. Most want to share their truth and want to be heard. So when we listen we should always interpret others as speaking from truth. All information that flows to us from others is a piece of truth, their truth.
As individuals, by definition we are not complete and are bias to “our truth” … by integrating all other(s) ideas and concepts into our understanding we climb the ladder of integral comprehension.
By being open to all points of view, all contrasts and variations, using an intention of acceptance and integration, we flow in a wholistic positive space internally. Not only for ourselves but also for all those interacting with personal integrity.
This type of integral life engagement with others helps make our life and those we interact with “to be” or “to feel” ____________? Insert your spiritual adjective here.
Whatever word comes to mind reflects our internal reality back towards us. We live life in our own spiritual reality and we reflect that out to others sharing in an interactive experience. I call this “the spiritual quest” … meaning we choose the life we live, creating and defining our own experiences as we dance the dance of life. ~ Peace
Respectfully, I don’t think Elon is someone to be leading. He’s a half-brained genius with Right-hemisphere deficiencies. I lived down the street from the Tesla plant for years and a former roommate worked on the assembly line doing electrical stuff. While Elon shows his best face to the media he runs his businesses like a tyrant. He refused to honor the reopening date of the plant during lockdown and told his employees they had to come back to work earlier then the date set by the city. He threatened to take Tesla out of the city if they pursued legal action. Hundreds of his employees ended up contracting Covid.
Elon has said in his defense of being a billionaire that “working 16 hour days, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year” is how he became so rich and that is a living example of how not to live.
Hi @Brian_Downey Thanks for commenting! FYI I am not endorsing Elon Musk for anything. He has some brilliance and some idiocy as we all do. He just does it bigger and bolder than the rest of us.
Yes he certainly does! Obviously, he has a lot to offer this world. As for the question of “is the world about to collapse” I think what’s going to collapse is humans polarized, dissociated worldviews that are completely out of touch with all of nature which includes the depth of human nature. The construct of the ideas of money for example are completely delusional and people have been conditioned to think that money is some kind of natural resource instead of understanding that it is a symbol of exchange and has more to do with the power dynamics of the relationships between humans which is sadly a developmental mess with all it’s hierarchical dynamics.
I certainly understand what you’re suggesting and think you’re stating similar concerns to what I have laid out here? Please let’s keep the discussion going.
This is probably preaching to the choir but everything is a relationship with power dynamics be it the atoms, molecules, cells, and organs of our bodies, the thoughts/feelings within us, our interactions with others, groups of people with other groups, etc. All of this has a power dynamic in relation to the natural world in which we arise. Everything in existence is always moving in and out of a state of homiostasus and nothing can stay out of that balanced state too long be it our bodies, our relationships with others, etc, without getting some pushback. If we ignore that pushback and remain dissociated from those imbalanced power dynamics collapse of those relationships is inevitable!
Humans with their socially constructed narratives have difficulties accepting this natural pushback and will take things to the most extreme power dynamic before they will change or it collapses and ceases to exist. Modern societies relational power dynamics have been out of balance for a long time especially with the natural world and the pushback processes are taking place at timescales that are too large for most to wrap their minds around so we simply remain focussed on our immediate needs and conditioned desires. If the greater sum of individuals do not develop and expand their awareness and deepen their understanding of all of this beautiful complexity we will not survive or at least not in a way that anyone could thrive in it’s most developed way.
Is War coming? If so, what kind?